Getting seriously sub standard DVD boxsets of TV series from companies like Warner
- Thread starter Askia V
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TheSims3Guru
New member
Curious that they shot the Granada Sherlock Holmes with Jeremy Brett on 18mm film. I wonder why. The first set of DVDs released were notably soft.
Nice for you to use the rolleyes icon when you have no alternative to the FACTS I've given you.
Shame your lack of knowledge makes it obvious that you don't have any idea about the change in "final editing" on US shows that is giving US programme owners major headaches right now and is preventing them from releasing shows from this era in HD.
I'm afraid it seems that you must be the moron then as you clearly have absolutely no idea about the history of US tv and how shows were filmed and then edited for post production.
You don't have any idea at all what you are talking about so I should do some research before posting yet another load of clueless drivel
Having said that - I'm not arguing that Warner are doing a good job . I'm simply passing on my knowledge to you to explain why they might be the way they are as knowledge is something you so obviously lack.
I have the first 5 seasons of Dallas and they are fine .
Shame your lack of knowledge makes it obvious that you don't have any idea about the change in "final editing" on US shows that is giving US programme owners major headaches right now and is preventing them from releasing shows from this era in HD.
I'm afraid it seems that you must be the moron then as you clearly have absolutely no idea about the history of US tv and how shows were filmed and then edited for post production.
You don't have any idea at all what you are talking about so I should do some research before posting yet another load of clueless drivel
Having said that - I'm not arguing that Warner are doing a good job . I'm simply passing on my knowledge to you to explain why they might be the way they are as knowledge is something you so obviously lack.
I have the first 5 seasons of Dallas and they are fine .
Yet another clueless pratt who has no idea what they are talking about.
If you had thr faintest inkling of how US tv was shot in the 80's and 90's you would be aware that what I posted was 100% correct .
Dynasty will also suffer the same picture quality problems when it reaches the later seasons .
It's a completely unavoidable side effect of the way things were made back then.
As I said before , its for this reason that earlier shows like Star Trek are suitable for HD while TNG etc are not.
It really would be a good idea to make an effort to find things out before posting ill informed shit like the other forum member who is equally ill informed .
If you had thr faintest inkling of how US tv was shot in the 80's and 90's you would be aware that what I posted was 100% correct .
Dynasty will also suffer the same picture quality problems when it reaches the later seasons .
It's a completely unavoidable side effect of the way things were made back then.
As I said before , its for this reason that earlier shows like Star Trek are suitable for HD while TNG etc are not.
It really would be a good idea to make an effort to find things out before posting ill informed shit like the other forum member who is equally ill informed .
friendly older kid
New member
I wouldn't waste my time Pocatello- he clearly thinks he knows it all when in fact he actually knows nothing whatsoever about the history of US tv and it's post production blip .
It is very old news for most people so it should be easy to find some clarification for those who were never there while it was going on.
As if a show that was made at the "exact same time" looking better is enough to say that the facts are untrue.
But we already know that even while Star Trek TNG and other shows from the US started the post production on tape ball rolling about 1987 there were shows like Quantum Leap that stayed with film right to the end in 1993 .
I can't think of any other US one hour show that was still doing that in 1993 .
Even shows that had started on film like Dallas ,Knots Landing etc all switched over to tape post production by the late 80's.
It is a major headache for US companies now that HD is here and they have such a large amount of their catalogue that cannot be mastered for HD without considerable work.
I believe Seinfeld has but I'm guessing there is not much extra work to do on that once the rescanning of the negatives has been performed.
Unlike Star Trek shows and things like The X Files where the huge amount of effects work means that an HD remount would cost a fortune.
I would have thought that Dallas was in a similar boat .
After studio filming was done there can't be much extra to do from a visual POV so an HD remount of Dallas would be much easier to do than the aforementioned fantasy shows
It is very old news for most people so it should be easy to find some clarification for those who were never there while it was going on.
As if a show that was made at the "exact same time" looking better is enough to say that the facts are untrue.
But we already know that even while Star Trek TNG and other shows from the US started the post production on tape ball rolling about 1987 there were shows like Quantum Leap that stayed with film right to the end in 1993 .
I can't think of any other US one hour show that was still doing that in 1993 .
Even shows that had started on film like Dallas ,Knots Landing etc all switched over to tape post production by the late 80's.
It is a major headache for US companies now that HD is here and they have such a large amount of their catalogue that cannot be mastered for HD without considerable work.
I believe Seinfeld has but I'm guessing there is not much extra work to do on that once the rescanning of the negatives has been performed.
Unlike Star Trek shows and things like The X Files where the huge amount of effects work means that an HD remount would cost a fortune.
I would have thought that Dallas was in a similar boat .
After studio filming was done there can't be much extra to do from a visual POV so an HD remount of Dallas would be much easier to do than the aforementioned fantasy shows
I'm guessing you've not seen many shows then.
The Sweeney was shot on 16mm and while the quality is way better than the original dvd's , the quality possible from that series is way below series shot on 35mm like The Saint or The Persuaders etc.
On top of that the Sweeney boxsets were spoilt by the poor authoring done by Network resulting in pixellation and other defects , especially series 2.
I agree the 5.1 audio has been done nicely though.
The Sweeney was shot on 16mm and while the quality is way better than the original dvd's , the quality possible from that series is way below series shot on 35mm like The Saint or The Persuaders etc.
On top of that the Sweeney boxsets were spoilt by the poor authoring done by Network resulting in pixellation and other defects , especially series 2.
I agree the 5.1 audio has been done nicely though.
It's 16mm film and it was the standard method of filming for BBC and ITV for decades.
Unless the show was a studio bound series made on tape 16mm was the format of choice as 35mm was way too expensive for British tv .
The only UK shows made on 35mm are things like The Avengers and the ITC shows like The Champions , Randall & Hopkirk , The Saint etc.
Even ITC had a period of cost cutting and around 1970-1972 they made the mistake of using 16mm for The Protectors , Jason King and The Adventurer.
You'll find all ITV's own productions are 16mm , from Morse to Frost to Holmes to Brideshead etc.
Unless the show was a studio bound series made on tape 16mm was the format of choice as 35mm was way too expensive for British tv .
The only UK shows made on 35mm are things like The Avengers and the ITC shows like The Champions , Randall & Hopkirk , The Saint etc.
Even ITC had a period of cost cutting and around 1970-1972 they made the mistake of using 16mm for The Protectors , Jason King and The Adventurer.
You'll find all ITV's own productions are 16mm , from Morse to Frost to Holmes to Brideshead etc.
You're all as bad as each other.
Sad when you could have enlightened without the insults.
Why would they want to shoot on small format film? Did it reduce the size of the lenses or increase the ability to shoot in natural light?
Oh never mind ,if it was really just the cost of the film...
Sad when you could have enlightened without the insults.
Why would they want to shoot on small format film? Did it reduce the size of the lenses or increase the ability to shoot in natural light?
Oh never mind ,if it was really just the cost of the film...
Stressed out Groom
New member
Did I insult you ?
No.
It's a bit annoying when something you know to be true is written off with a rolleyes icon by someone who obviously has no idea.
The choice for 16mm was cost - pure and simple.
35mm is generally the film type use for cinema films which is why the results are such high quality.
Look at shows made on 35m from the 60's like The Avengers , The Prisoner , Hawaii Five -O , Star Trek etc
The picture quality on these and virtually all US shows up to the late 80's was cinema quality which is why these programmes are easy to remaster into HD as 35mm gives quality that exceeds our current HD standards.
So 16mm was chosen as it was cheap and there were no considerations about HD when they were made .
BBC and ITV opted for Super 16 years later as a cheap way into widescreen but once again they are now paying as super 16 is also well below the best that HD can offer which is why the few Blurays that are out with 16mm sourced material on are so poor compared to similar material on 35mm .
Some modern films use 16mm as an artistic decision for its grainy documentary feel.
So while Sherlock Holmes would have been great on 35mm and now have a bright future on HD , when it was made , channel controllers were unable to justfy the cost of shooting on 35mm as they saw no need.
No.
It's a bit annoying when something you know to be true is written off with a rolleyes icon by someone who obviously has no idea.
The choice for 16mm was cost - pure and simple.
35mm is generally the film type use for cinema films which is why the results are such high quality.
Look at shows made on 35m from the 60's like The Avengers , The Prisoner , Hawaii Five -O , Star Trek etc
The picture quality on these and virtually all US shows up to the late 80's was cinema quality which is why these programmes are easy to remaster into HD as 35mm gives quality that exceeds our current HD standards.
So 16mm was chosen as it was cheap and there were no considerations about HD when they were made .
BBC and ITV opted for Super 16 years later as a cheap way into widescreen but once again they are now paying as super 16 is also well below the best that HD can offer which is why the few Blurays that are out with 16mm sourced material on are so poor compared to similar material on 35mm .
Some modern films use 16mm as an artistic decision for its grainy documentary feel.
So while Sherlock Holmes would have been great on 35mm and now have a bright future on HD , when it was made , channel controllers were unable to justfy the cost of shooting on 35mm as they saw no need.
Southern Plunger
New member
Here's info from a CBS person who explains in basic terms about the change in post production to tape and why its a headache now for HD with reference to The Next Generation.
"At a Star Trek convention in Las Vegas in August], 2010, a representative for CBS Consumer Products was quoted as saying that remastering the show for HD would be "extremely difficult." As with the original series, TNG was shot on 35mm film, including most of the major visual effects elements (ex. ships), but unlike the original series, most other effects and compositing were done at SD resolution on D1 video.
This leaves CBS Home Entertainment with only two options. The first would be to upscale the original 480i SD masters to the 1080p resolution of the Blu-Ray format, an option clearly unacceptable to both CBS Home Entertainment executives and Star Trek fans alike. The second
"At a Star Trek convention in Las Vegas in August], 2010, a representative for CBS Consumer Products was quoted as saying that remastering the show for HD would be "extremely difficult." As with the original series, TNG was shot on 35mm film, including most of the major visual effects elements (ex. ships), but unlike the original series, most other effects and compositing were done at SD resolution on D1 video.
This leaves CBS Home Entertainment with only two options. The first would be to upscale the original 480i SD masters to the 1080p resolution of the Blu-Ray format, an option clearly unacceptable to both CBS Home Entertainment executives and Star Trek fans alike. The second
I don't want to go all in depth like other posters but the above picture problems like judder and colour shift are perfect examples of what can happen with a substandard copy from the ntsc standard to pal.
As the other member correctly points out American tv shot itself in the foot with it's decision to use a tape based format for these episodes and these glitches are all too common .
If Warner are making these on the cheap they may even be using tape masters that were made at the time in which case they will look terrible compared to todays series.
I do not own Dallas so I cannot comment on that.
As the other member correctly points out American tv shot itself in the foot with it's decision to use a tape based format for these episodes and these glitches are all too common .
If Warner are making these on the cheap they may even be using tape masters that were made at the time in which case they will look terrible compared to todays series.
I do not own Dallas so I cannot comment on that.
I'm just not sure of the demographics, dallas viewers are now older, and unlike trekkies who are generally more tech savy and collector types, I have no idea if dallas viewers are anything close to that. If they aren't collector types or tech savy, the incentive to bother with restoration process is just a lot less.
abrummett2
New member
Bewitched is an official release from Sony , the shows owner.
I Love Lucy is part of the unfortunate group of US shows where copyright (in the US) has lapsed and once that happens the series - or at least parts of it - come into the Public Domain ,so literally anybody can release bootleg dvd's of the show without any comeback.
Some seasons of Lucy , aswell as a lot of Bonanza and other similar vintage US shows have this problem which is why there are multiple US dvd sets containing awful quality copies .
Even though bootleggers can release them , they won't have access to the original vault elements so they will acquire copies of shows from any source - even tv broadcasts,
Even though the PD laws do not apply in the UK it hasn't stopped several companies from releasing this PD material here in equally poor quality .
Elstree Hill is one company who's entire catalogue consists of PD series .
Their Champion The Wonder Horse set is a travesty in terms of quality.
Lots of these shows also turn up on the very minor satellite channels but again they are dire quality.
But even PD material can have a decent release as the official owner will still be the only one with access to decent quality elements .
The original Night of the Living Dead and It's A Wonderful Life are just 2 of the movies that are in the US PD so there were lots of awful quality releases but eventually we did get good quality releases of both.
IIRC the PD error did not occur with I Love Lucy's later seasons.
The error being that in the US you have to renew copyright every 28 years , and some companies simply forgot while the buying and selling of film libraries over the years means that the real owners of some material are not even aware they are the owners because some lesser shows/films were part of a larger library that was purchased.
ITC's Robin Hood and The Invisible Man are the only UK shows I know of where bootleg releases in the US appeared.
I Love Lucy is part of the unfortunate group of US shows where copyright (in the US) has lapsed and once that happens the series - or at least parts of it - come into the Public Domain ,so literally anybody can release bootleg dvd's of the show without any comeback.
Some seasons of Lucy , aswell as a lot of Bonanza and other similar vintage US shows have this problem which is why there are multiple US dvd sets containing awful quality copies .
Even though bootleggers can release them , they won't have access to the original vault elements so they will acquire copies of shows from any source - even tv broadcasts,
Even though the PD laws do not apply in the UK it hasn't stopped several companies from releasing this PD material here in equally poor quality .
Elstree Hill is one company who's entire catalogue consists of PD series .
Their Champion The Wonder Horse set is a travesty in terms of quality.
Lots of these shows also turn up on the very minor satellite channels but again they are dire quality.
But even PD material can have a decent release as the official owner will still be the only one with access to decent quality elements .
The original Night of the Living Dead and It's A Wonderful Life are just 2 of the movies that are in the US PD so there were lots of awful quality releases but eventually we did get good quality releases of both.
IIRC the PD error did not occur with I Love Lucy's later seasons.
The error being that in the US you have to renew copyright every 28 years , and some companies simply forgot while the buying and selling of film libraries over the years means that the real owners of some material are not even aware they are the owners because some lesser shows/films were part of a larger library that was purchased.
ITC's Robin Hood and The Invisible Man are the only UK shows I know of where bootleg releases in the US appeared.
bar_mar_mar
New member
You should check out Randall & Hopkirk.
Not as gritty as your Euston product but it's a long way from the usual glossy ITC series with US cast members and exotic locations.
Much of it is set in London and the down on his luck Jeff Randall is a quite different "hero" to the likes of Simon Templar or McGill.
The 35mm shows are where the astonishing quality possible really comes to the fore.
The Bluray of The Prisoner is incredible and the restorations of both UFO and Strange Report by BBC Resources are benchmarks yet to be beaten despite getting on for a decade since they were done.
One gritty 16mm series that really could do with a proper restoration is The Professionals.
There is a hard to believe rumour around that the exact location of the negatives is unknown
Not as gritty as your Euston product but it's a long way from the usual glossy ITC series with US cast members and exotic locations.
Much of it is set in London and the down on his luck Jeff Randall is a quite different "hero" to the likes of Simon Templar or McGill.
The 35mm shows are where the astonishing quality possible really comes to the fore.
The Bluray of The Prisoner is incredible and the restorations of both UFO and Strange Report by BBC Resources are benchmarks yet to be beaten despite getting on for a decade since they were done.
One gritty 16mm series that really could do with a proper restoration is The Professionals.
There is a hard to believe rumour around that the exact location of the negatives is unknown