Logged on to G+ today and had a super interesting conversation with someone from NASA. Really cool. What do you think the future of space travel looks like?
Also, sorry for the formatting, it's hard to bring G+ stuff on OT. (My profile https://plus.google.com/106702324621449002266/posts you won't be able to see the thread, since she posted it first )
Topic: And, honestly, this is what happens when Congress tries to pretend they're engineers.
Preliminary NASA plan shows Evolved SLS vehicle is 21 years away | NASASpaceFlight.com
A new schedule, created by NASA, has provided a preliminary, budget restricted manifest which places the first flight of the fully evolved Space Launch System
Me+ - This is what happens when society has no shared dream or hope. The spirit of discovery, innovation, education and pioneering has died off, and now the only thing left is the public's addiction to reality TV and celebrity drama instead of the advancement of mankind.
Other dude+ - I expect in 21 years we'll have more advanced technology.
9:26 AM
Her+ - Oh, I agree with you, and it pisses me off. The reality TV crowd keeps bellowing to cut our funding without realising how much came from/comes from NASA (and how little funding we actually get-- ferchrissake, we get half a percent of the federal budget, and it's not like we ONLY do manned spaceflight). There's also a very disturbing trend of "edukashun is fer eleetists" in this country.
However... Congress IS trying to dictate how to design our next vehicle, and it's based on wanting products from their districts, at the lowest possible cost, as soon as they want something. I think we'd be much better off if they'd back off, fund us, and stop insisting on Shuttle-derived tech.
Her+ - Whoops, didn't see the intervening comment while I was typing-- I hope in 21 years we have more advanced tech, but that requires drive, funding, education, and research. ...Goddamnit, I want to be walking on the moon before then.
9:28 AM
Me+ - Totally agreed. NASA should be an organizing that's there to do science for science's sake, and promote our quest to discover our own universe. Congress deciding what it should be doing is terrible. Fund NASA, promote certain goals, but don't dictate what the brightest minRAB in the world should be doing. That's not how you get the most out of R&D.
Imagine having a colony on the moon, with a telescope on the dark side. An opportunity to find out so much more about our universe, while advancing science way beyond our current capabilities. Totally recyclable living, low gravity life, space transport, etc. Or imagine a colony ship to join in your old age, frozen for a set amount of time so that when you wake up in a thousand years, you live your last few years beside another star.
Oh well, the pioneer spirit is dead for now. Instead, we have war, violence, lack of apathy for other humans, with the corporate elite taking over the world, totally ruining the lives of the middle class in the process.
9:34 AM - Edit
Her+ - It may be foolishly idealistic, but I'm hoping that while people can still have conversations like this, we'll keep at least a piece of the dream alive for whenever we pull out of this Idiocracy-inspired downward spiral...
9:36 AM
Me+ - +1 for your optimism. I believe that as the rest of the world catches up (and maybe surpasses) the Western World in science & tech, we will see a revival of the quest for discovery. As long as we have optimists and people with dreams, that spiral will finish one day.
On another note, I like your style... do you have a newsletter?
9:39 AM - Edit
Me+ - If we keep the dream alive, one day people will discuss the future of mankind instead of posting pictures of themselves on the shitter. Or maybe we just haven't advanced past Freud's poop stage, and the 20th century was just a blip on in the book of Humanity.
9:40 AM - Edit
Her+ - Why, thankee. *G *
At the very least, I'm thinking that when the rest of the world stomps us in exploration, it should hopefully cause us to go all "cold war/USSR/screw them, we're going to the moon!" again. As much as I'd love to believe that our manned space program started from a love of exploration and discovery, it was mostly politics and that love grew in after. Perhaps, while we're still this young (as a race/species/country/world?), we need that impetus and those of us with the dream will be able to ride in the wake of the politically-driven.
On the other claw... I have very little hope for the majority of my half-generation and the half-generation below me, who are the ones posting pictures of themselves on the shitter and tweeting about celebrities' every move. *Picard facepalm * Maybe the generation after them.
9:48 AM
Me+ - It definitely was politics, but the 50s and 60s were a very different time, with a very different atmosphere. People had lived through the depression and World War 2, and now the Universe was their Oyster. Sure, an important part of it was the Cold War, but the population at the time had lived through misery. The Boomers did not experience misery, and fell in a rut of laziness and complacence, which we are still feeling today.
I'm trying to look at the positive of the Twit generation, now everyone in the world is linked together at the speed of light. The entire encyclopaedia of the world is a click away, something that Douglas Adam had dreamed about years ago. Our generation might learn that every human is another meraber of our species, and because of that we all share an eternal bond.
All the evolution, history, learning, love, hate, dreams, wars and action that has ever been taken by the billions before us have led to where we are now, and that is something we all share together. Our generation realizes that, even if it's not conscious.
10:00 AM (edited) - Edit
+1
Her+ - Well-said. (As an aside to your last two paragraphs, did you see the article (I think it was on Reddit) about how our brains are changing to match our information-driven society? We're actually learning differently because of the vast amount of readily searchable information at our fingertips. We're becoming less wired for rote learning and more for searching/looking up/processing.)
10:05 AM
Me+ - I checked out your profile, and noticed that you actually work for NASA! Very cool to know that you wrote that from a 1st person perspective. Props to making it to where I dreamed of ending up everyday as a kid
10:06 AM - Edit
Her+ - Thanks! It was partially luck and partially a fair amount of hard work, but it's been a lifelong dream for me, too. I also maintain that anyone can work for NASA/the contractors for NASA. I make sure to encourage my little sister's classmates at every opportunity.
I'm pretty young in the field, so I've never worked Shuttle; I'm lucky enough to be working on the future manned stuff and getting the benefit of years of learning from the "old hanRAB" around me. And, well, I can see the VAB from here!
10:13 AM
Me+ - "luck" eh? After the recent NASA AMA, it looked like getting in is very difficult for youngin's due to budget cuts and a lack of turnover because of the economy. Must have been a lot of luck... but I'll just keep thinking it was hard work.
Do you think there's any chance that within our lifetime, there will be an Apollo-mission equivalent in terms of scale, scope and national effort? Obama's cuts to the Moon program make me sad inside, but do you foresee enough political changes in the future that NASA could get back on a similar track that it had in the 60s?
Or has the recent privatization of shuttle construction shown that the future is more in the private sector? Is it viable for rich individuals to just get together and rediscover the Moon and Space, without government intervention?
10:23 AM - Edit
Her+ - Well, the "luck" was being in the right place at the right time (internship, 4 years ago), having the right old class on my resumé to beat out the other 4 final applicants, landing in an org as an intern that was dedicated to bringing hard-working interns opportunities, landing in a matrix org as a co-op that values quirky people like me, etc. Having a deci-crapton of education and a willingness to learn whatever I don't yet know, now that's hard work and skill.
My pessimistic side says that the space program will have to decline further before someone says "oh fuck, we screwed up, have some monies". My intellect says that I think, given the political status and technological status of the world, there's a good chance that we'll be goaded into launching a full-scale program again. I worry, though, because the moonshot was a relatively short and small effort; I think we can get back to the moon and start a base there, but a trip to Mars will take a shift in the way our politics function (since every 4 years, NASA policy shifts with the political winRAB and a Mars mission will take MUCH longer-term planning).
As for the commercial sector- I think that NASA's place is the forefront, the leading edge, the exploration and science. The private sector is here to make things "routine" and "cheap" (relatively speaking). I think that the private sector has a chance, but the speed with which they get to space/beyond relies on a shift of attitude-- yes, NASA is government, but we've been doing this for 50 years. So, for the love of little goRAB, please LISTEN to us when we tell you why something won't work or why we have human-rating standarRAB. It'll save you money, time, and lives in the long-run.
Standard disclaimer, since this is public: My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my organization, workplace, or the agency as a whole.
10:36 AM
Me+ - Thanks for that post, it was a very interesting read. Great point about the 4-year timeline, hadn't thought about how that can have a big impact on NASA's budget & policies.
It's awesome to see people my age with passion, intelligence and great writing skills. Will keep an eye out for more of your posts.
Again, thanks for the enlightening discussion this morning, mad props and keep up the good work.
10:48 AM - Edit
Also, sorry for the formatting, it's hard to bring G+ stuff on OT. (My profile https://plus.google.com/106702324621449002266/posts you won't be able to see the thread, since she posted it first )
Topic: And, honestly, this is what happens when Congress tries to pretend they're engineers.
Preliminary NASA plan shows Evolved SLS vehicle is 21 years away | NASASpaceFlight.com
A new schedule, created by NASA, has provided a preliminary, budget restricted manifest which places the first flight of the fully evolved Space Launch System
Me+ - This is what happens when society has no shared dream or hope. The spirit of discovery, innovation, education and pioneering has died off, and now the only thing left is the public's addiction to reality TV and celebrity drama instead of the advancement of mankind.
Other dude+ - I expect in 21 years we'll have more advanced technology.
9:26 AM
Her+ - Oh, I agree with you, and it pisses me off. The reality TV crowd keeps bellowing to cut our funding without realising how much came from/comes from NASA (and how little funding we actually get-- ferchrissake, we get half a percent of the federal budget, and it's not like we ONLY do manned spaceflight). There's also a very disturbing trend of "edukashun is fer eleetists" in this country.
However... Congress IS trying to dictate how to design our next vehicle, and it's based on wanting products from their districts, at the lowest possible cost, as soon as they want something. I think we'd be much better off if they'd back off, fund us, and stop insisting on Shuttle-derived tech.
Her+ - Whoops, didn't see the intervening comment while I was typing-- I hope in 21 years we have more advanced tech, but that requires drive, funding, education, and research. ...Goddamnit, I want to be walking on the moon before then.
9:28 AM
Me+ - Totally agreed. NASA should be an organizing that's there to do science for science's sake, and promote our quest to discover our own universe. Congress deciding what it should be doing is terrible. Fund NASA, promote certain goals, but don't dictate what the brightest minRAB in the world should be doing. That's not how you get the most out of R&D.
Imagine having a colony on the moon, with a telescope on the dark side. An opportunity to find out so much more about our universe, while advancing science way beyond our current capabilities. Totally recyclable living, low gravity life, space transport, etc. Or imagine a colony ship to join in your old age, frozen for a set amount of time so that when you wake up in a thousand years, you live your last few years beside another star.
Oh well, the pioneer spirit is dead for now. Instead, we have war, violence, lack of apathy for other humans, with the corporate elite taking over the world, totally ruining the lives of the middle class in the process.
9:34 AM - Edit
Her+ - It may be foolishly idealistic, but I'm hoping that while people can still have conversations like this, we'll keep at least a piece of the dream alive for whenever we pull out of this Idiocracy-inspired downward spiral...
9:36 AM
Me+ - +1 for your optimism. I believe that as the rest of the world catches up (and maybe surpasses) the Western World in science & tech, we will see a revival of the quest for discovery. As long as we have optimists and people with dreams, that spiral will finish one day.
On another note, I like your style... do you have a newsletter?
9:39 AM - Edit
Me+ - If we keep the dream alive, one day people will discuss the future of mankind instead of posting pictures of themselves on the shitter. Or maybe we just haven't advanced past Freud's poop stage, and the 20th century was just a blip on in the book of Humanity.
9:40 AM - Edit
Her+ - Why, thankee. *G *
At the very least, I'm thinking that when the rest of the world stomps us in exploration, it should hopefully cause us to go all "cold war/USSR/screw them, we're going to the moon!" again. As much as I'd love to believe that our manned space program started from a love of exploration and discovery, it was mostly politics and that love grew in after. Perhaps, while we're still this young (as a race/species/country/world?), we need that impetus and those of us with the dream will be able to ride in the wake of the politically-driven.
On the other claw... I have very little hope for the majority of my half-generation and the half-generation below me, who are the ones posting pictures of themselves on the shitter and tweeting about celebrities' every move. *Picard facepalm * Maybe the generation after them.
9:48 AM
Me+ - It definitely was politics, but the 50s and 60s were a very different time, with a very different atmosphere. People had lived through the depression and World War 2, and now the Universe was their Oyster. Sure, an important part of it was the Cold War, but the population at the time had lived through misery. The Boomers did not experience misery, and fell in a rut of laziness and complacence, which we are still feeling today.
I'm trying to look at the positive of the Twit generation, now everyone in the world is linked together at the speed of light. The entire encyclopaedia of the world is a click away, something that Douglas Adam had dreamed about years ago. Our generation might learn that every human is another meraber of our species, and because of that we all share an eternal bond.
All the evolution, history, learning, love, hate, dreams, wars and action that has ever been taken by the billions before us have led to where we are now, and that is something we all share together. Our generation realizes that, even if it's not conscious.
10:00 AM (edited) - Edit
+1
Her+ - Well-said. (As an aside to your last two paragraphs, did you see the article (I think it was on Reddit) about how our brains are changing to match our information-driven society? We're actually learning differently because of the vast amount of readily searchable information at our fingertips. We're becoming less wired for rote learning and more for searching/looking up/processing.)
10:05 AM
Me+ - I checked out your profile, and noticed that you actually work for NASA! Very cool to know that you wrote that from a 1st person perspective. Props to making it to where I dreamed of ending up everyday as a kid
10:06 AM - Edit
Her+ - Thanks! It was partially luck and partially a fair amount of hard work, but it's been a lifelong dream for me, too. I also maintain that anyone can work for NASA/the contractors for NASA. I make sure to encourage my little sister's classmates at every opportunity.
I'm pretty young in the field, so I've never worked Shuttle; I'm lucky enough to be working on the future manned stuff and getting the benefit of years of learning from the "old hanRAB" around me. And, well, I can see the VAB from here!
10:13 AM
Me+ - "luck" eh? After the recent NASA AMA, it looked like getting in is very difficult for youngin's due to budget cuts and a lack of turnover because of the economy. Must have been a lot of luck... but I'll just keep thinking it was hard work.
Do you think there's any chance that within our lifetime, there will be an Apollo-mission equivalent in terms of scale, scope and national effort? Obama's cuts to the Moon program make me sad inside, but do you foresee enough political changes in the future that NASA could get back on a similar track that it had in the 60s?
Or has the recent privatization of shuttle construction shown that the future is more in the private sector? Is it viable for rich individuals to just get together and rediscover the Moon and Space, without government intervention?
10:23 AM - Edit
Her+ - Well, the "luck" was being in the right place at the right time (internship, 4 years ago), having the right old class on my resumé to beat out the other 4 final applicants, landing in an org as an intern that was dedicated to bringing hard-working interns opportunities, landing in a matrix org as a co-op that values quirky people like me, etc. Having a deci-crapton of education and a willingness to learn whatever I don't yet know, now that's hard work and skill.
My pessimistic side says that the space program will have to decline further before someone says "oh fuck, we screwed up, have some monies". My intellect says that I think, given the political status and technological status of the world, there's a good chance that we'll be goaded into launching a full-scale program again. I worry, though, because the moonshot was a relatively short and small effort; I think we can get back to the moon and start a base there, but a trip to Mars will take a shift in the way our politics function (since every 4 years, NASA policy shifts with the political winRAB and a Mars mission will take MUCH longer-term planning).
As for the commercial sector- I think that NASA's place is the forefront, the leading edge, the exploration and science. The private sector is here to make things "routine" and "cheap" (relatively speaking). I think that the private sector has a chance, but the speed with which they get to space/beyond relies on a shift of attitude-- yes, NASA is government, but we've been doing this for 50 years. So, for the love of little goRAB, please LISTEN to us when we tell you why something won't work or why we have human-rating standarRAB. It'll save you money, time, and lives in the long-run.
Standard disclaimer, since this is public: My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my organization, workplace, or the agency as a whole.
10:36 AM
Me+ - Thanks for that post, it was a very interesting read. Great point about the 4-year timeline, hadn't thought about how that can have a big impact on NASA's budget & policies.
It's awesome to see people my age with passion, intelligence and great writing skills. Will keep an eye out for more of your posts.
Again, thanks for the enlightening discussion this morning, mad props and keep up the good work.
10:48 AM - Edit