FOX Talkback - Family Guy - "Believe It Or Not, Joe's Walking On Air" (Spoilers)

The funny parts:
* Fred and Barney at the Drunken Clam bar.
* The 2 Hitler appearances.
* The frogs in Ethiopia.
* The "Good Morning" (from "Singin' in the Rain") dance routine.
* The end of the episode where Peter says something to Joe.
 
dth1971, you can just edit your posts instead of creating an new one.

Back on topic: This episode was OK, but not great. I too would have liked it if Joe had permanently regained the use of his legs, but I knew that wasn't going to happen. Except for Loretta leaving Cleveland, Seth always goes for the "everything is back to normal" endings.

Now Cleveland apparently has a new (and previously unmentioned) girlfriend who's basically Loretta, only thin. I would have preferred it if Cleveland had gotten remarried to a woman of a different race (either white or Asian American), only because it would be interesting to see FG's take on an interracial romance.

Chris and Meg weren't in this ep at all, and Stewie and Brian were barely in it. Once again, Stewie is acting more like a gay fop than an evil mastermind. And Herbert is really starting to get long in the tooth. Still, this one was better than the last crop of shows this season (and yes, I'm including the mediocre Star Wars season opener).
 
I have a feeling that while the writers are somewhat self aware about fan's concerns they don't really care too much. For example this episode addressed cutaways being a lame and stupid way to get gags across, mentioning how Dr. hartman and Mr. Puetersmitch have the same voice (something the writers admitted awhile back somewhere), Peter's comparisons making no sense and saying they actually wrote something in to have a point. So yeah they know people complain but yet they still do nothing to fix it: Still way so disjointed (I mean really this could of just turned into a whole men vs wives episode where the women actually learn something for once instead of a Joe episode), still a lot of badly place drawn out cutaways (The maid one for example is pointless, not funny, and some try and save themselves with a sort of clever one liner, like the bullfrog one or the Matt Dilon rant) and of course a "nothing changes" ending. I mean really despite how jerky Joe was being, the guys and even Bonnie are still total asses for trying to re-cripple him (although at least the "keep the kid" might of actually been a refrence to the unborn child/Kevin, neither of whom have any real other presence in this show). Also kind of haphazardly showing Cleveland's new girlfriend (who turns out to just be a younger version of Loretta. You'd think Cleveland would learn... oh wait no character in FG learns anything ever. Nevermind) as well as trying to fit in Brian and Stewie scenes into an episode they otherwise should of been in kind of shows how crummy they're placing and pacing still is. Eh there were some decent other laughs (Peter taking apart the house to build the bar, "who invited Anne Frank in here?", the Jack Black movie mention, Joe beating up the guys in karate/at the end of the ep, the return of the Spiderman rescue (with Peter having to mention everyone gets one) and... well that's it really) but overall a fairly meh episode. It at least documents FG problems but shows the writers do not really care to fix them at all which kind of sends a sour message about the show really.
 
They realize what it takes to fix the show, they probably just don't feel like doing it. And who can blame them, really, since their ratings are up and they're booming in the 18-24 demographic. If they're going to fix some problems, amazing, but if they're sticking to tried and true, well, they're still grabbing those ratings and earning cold hard cash.

Remember when they did make a legit season 2-season 3 era episode (I pretty much like the entire series but for argument's sakes) of Brian's Song? Remember how much you guys ripped it apart for not being that great regardless of how it did everything right? It was still funny, but it wasn't funny enough despite it having the makings of every good FG.

It just goes to show you, no matter what you do, the fans will always be angry and nitpicky about something. I could have pointed out that Quagmire said 'Joe, you've been our friend for YEARS' when technically they've only known each other for about a year and a half (and that's stretching it, but I'm accounting all the birthdays and ages, and if Stewie had a birthday in the beginning of the show around the time they met Joe, and he's still 1, then not much time has past). Don't say Family Guy is not good with continuity either, it's much better then a lot of these shows regardless of cutaways.

But see, you can't please anyone and that's why they're just making the show the way they want to. It's not hurting anyone, and heck, you're getting it for free.
 
I don't think it's entirely fair to just throw out blanket statements that the fans don't know what they want and that they're going to complain no matter what the FG staff does. There have been almost universally liked episodes like PTV, Stewie Loves Lois, Meet the Quagmires, Petergeist, North By North Quahog, and a few others since the revival. Clearly those episodes did something right for a lot of fans to enjoy them.

Besides, if the fans are impossible to please, why was the reaction to this week's episode notably better than last week's? I certainly don't think it's complaining for the sake of complaining if an episode didn't make someone laugh very much, which was the case with last week's for a lot of people.
 
If you go back and read some of the posts, the 'how funny is it' topic is pandered on for a few pages. The episode that we are speaking of was written with good intentions in mind to not dwell on what was holding the show back for a while (for some fans, at least), and it accomplished something (Brian breaking up with Julian), showed some heart (the family moment at the end), and some emotion (Brian regretting his decision), etc. While these may not be 100% damn amazing efforts, they're fairly close, at least in a good right direction. But things like this weren't really focused on so much as the negative aspects of the show. On another note, that can be said about the entire internet and the basic human aspect to rip something to shreds.

So sure, the fans could have been happy with the episode, but from what I saw, the majority of them weren't 'pleased' (I think we may have two separate opinions about what it is to have a fan pleased by a show, I may have a higher standard or I might be stricter). They still had qualms about the show and it discouraged them from giving Family Guy a great grade.

And the Universally Accepted thing you mentioned earlier, isn't that a blanket statement as well? TV.com, which isn't a very good example but it's the only one I have offhand at the moment, has a large amount of fans on there that absolutely hate those mentioned episodes. It's true that most fans of any medium are morons (I think this is less of a general statement and more of an accepted fact), so some of those opinions are questionable, but to each his/her own. For the sake of this discussion, I'm just going to ignore the outright haters of the show and the groups who have stopped watching it after the renewal and just focus on the ones still sticking with it.
 
I more meant they got mostly positive feedback here at Toon Zone, sorry if I wasn't clear on that. I don't visit tv.com very much. Regardless, I never said ALL fans liked those episodes. That, to me, is a blanket statement, just like "Fans only like to complain, the FG staff shouldn't even bother trying to please them."
 
Anyone else bother to point out that Cleveland likes to be the doormat in his relationship, as he's attracted to women that bully him, and yet he does nothing but complain about it?
 
I guess you took me a bit too literally on that last statement, I didn't mean that they should never try, I just meant that it's really impossible to try to win everyone's hearts with any episode, it just can't happen. There's too many tastes.



Ha, yeah, a very endearing character trait from Cleveland, that's for sure. Still kinda makes you feel bad for him.
 
This was a much better episode than last week's. Sure, the cutaways weren't always funny, but a lot of the humor at least feeled inspired and didn't drag on for eternity, aside from Stewie insulting that guy whose name I've already forgotten.

Solid 4/5
 
I think what happens is, people are trying to figure out what's wrong with the show and how to make it better -- things like, it needs fewer random cutaways, fewer long jokes, a more coherent plot, more heart -- but adding those things still doesn't necessarily make for a good episode. Because it still has to have good gags, and it's hard to go into much detail about that other than... they have to be funny. In theory, the improvements we're asking for should result in a better overall episode, but nothing can really guarantee that it'll be funny. That's sort of a magic element, the part of the show that's unique and can't be constructed via committee.

Of course, last week's episode quite clearly failed the "no overly long jokes" criterion. The first conversation about movies entered dangerous territory, but the second one was exactly like the first except about three times as long. That was pretty agonizing. And I have to point out that nobody I've talked to, on the internet or in real life, liked the episode.

Now, let's look at this week's episode. It had a lot of what was good about last week's, but it also had the gags to back it up. It had a coherent, focused plot. It had some element of heart to it (in typical FG fashion it was ravaged at the end of the episode, but I did honestly feel bad for Joe early on, and that was enough). It was fairly low on cutaways and long jokes. And, finally, it had something new: highly self-referential jokes. They were unexpected, and a show like this definitely has to keep us guessing. The show has settled into a rut where it's becoming more predictable and also giving off a sort of arrogance, like they can do whatever they want and it'll be funny. Making fun of itself might be the way to go -- until that becomes stale.
 
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