For all the bashing about the Pres. response to the gulf guess who said this?

  • Thread starter Thread starter AlextheDroog
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While I don't have enough interest to search it out, I will say that I'm not one who is saying Obama could have done more. However...


Since by picking out that first quote, it seems likely you believe we should listen to the people who are there. I can do that. Also, to ensure that we're being fair to your side, because you obviously have a side, I'll listen to someone who has been a huge Obama sackrider who is actually there, it seems.

http://vodpod.com/watch/3714160-james-carville-blasts-white-house-on-oil-disaster

Given that, it seems obvious Obama has not done what he should have. I would never have thought of putting oil tankers there to pump the oil into, so that is at least one thing he should have done. I guess. According to his own best supporters, anyway.

The bottom line seems to be that Obama has weak people advising him, and he obviously isn't coming up with the brilliant ideas himself. I don't blame him for not coming up with the brilliant ideas himself, no one can know everything. I do have an issue with his appointing ideological soulmates for important positions rather than competent people. I had the same issue with Bush.

By and large, I didn't have that issue with Clinton, Bush1, or Reagan.
 
The original statement was ballz2wallz...yet you seem to be trying to say it wasn't. Why?
 
We keep missing the point.

Bush attempted to help Katrina, and never once pretended otherwise, and his actiosn never contradicted his statements.

Obama said he was on "on it from day 1" with "all heands on deck" and yet that doesn't really mean anything except vacation and watching. Why would he claim to be in control when he's really not?
 
I don't think Obama should be invovled in this really in any way. I don't think he should have to pay for the cleanup efforts. I do think he can reach out to the people of LA if he wanted to "lead" anything, but I agree, this is BPs mess. That said, I don't agree with him injecting himself into these efforts. I don't agree with him taking credit for leading anything, or being in charge. I don't agree with him keeping the states from doing certain things to protect themselves. I don't agree with the feds keeping the red tape in place for certain efforts. I don't agree with him making himself a target of leadership. He doesn't know shit about cleanup efforts like this (not that anybody else does either) so he should sit back and let things go. But no, he's made himself a leader of the efforts, and now he's going to be targeted for the failures.
 
Carville is not an Obama sackrider. he was a Clinton man. he is also a cajun native, but thats an aside.



"pump the oil". how? Carville is a strategist, not a technocrat.

[/quote]
 
He has also been an extreme Obama sackrider up to now. They aren't mutually exclusive.





You can look up how Saudi Arabia did it years ago. I don't have enough interest to do the research for you. However it was done, so the technology exisits.
 
the federal government needs to be there. end of story. BP is failing miserably. they are wasting resources on these PR methods of trying to stop the leak, instead of focusing effort where it belongs-- cleanup.

and the Louisiana's idea to create a berm out of dredged material isn't going to work, and is taking resources away from the cleanup effort.

the consensus among oil insiders is that the only way the leak stops is by relief well.
 
I will take the word of a commentator who has real world experience in drilling oil on a serious message board about the topic than bullshit political hackery here.

I don't know his exact qualifications, but I do know that you have none. so why are you recommending a rube solution when you have no idea what in the hell you are talking about?

and yes, he did spend time in Saudi Arabia.
 
Nobody knows oil or how to fix it like BP does. The federal government will only make things worse
 
i agree. a drilling company is the only one who is going to know how to fix this. The government doesn't have any expertise. all the actions up to now have been low probability success experiments.

i got into an argument with a stunningly beautiful and intelligent girl about this after we agreed on just about everything else that we talked about-- at least in the realm of current events. She thought the government should step in.
 
and I showed you a fox news link no less where its stated that he had a number of feds down there 4 days after the explosion. Why do you keep ignoring that?


the whole "keeping states from doing things" is false

http://mediamatters.org/research/201005280029
In fact, there have been significant cleanup efforts ongoing for more than a month


Interior Department estimates 11 million gallons of oil-water mix have been recovered and has an ongoing list of its cleanup efforts. According to the Department of the Interior, as of the morning of May 28:
Personnel were quickly deployed and approximately 20,000 are currently responding to protect the shoreline and wildlife.More than 1,300 vessels are responding on site, including skimmers, tugs, barges, and recovery vessels to assist in containment and cleanup efforts -- in addition to dozens of aircraft, remotely operated vehicles, and multiple mobile offshore drilling units.More than 1.85 million feet of containment boom and 1.25 million feet of sorbent boom have been deployed to contain the spill -- and approximately 300,000 feet of containment boom and 1 million feet of sorbent boom are available.Approximately 11 million gallons of an oil-water mix have been recovered.Approximately 840,000 gallons of total dispersant have been deployed -- 700,000 on the surface and 140,000 subsea. More than 380,000 gallons are available.17 staging areas are in place and ready to protect sensitive shorelines, including: Dauphin Island, Ala., Orange Beach, Ala., Theodore, Ala., Panama City, Fla., Pensacola, Fla., Port St. Joe, Fla., St. Marks, Fla., Amelia, La., Cocodrie, La., Grand Isle, La., Shell Beach, La., Slidell, La., St. Mary, La.; Venice, La., Biloxi, Miss., Pascagoula, Miss., and Pass Christian, Miss.The response and cleanup effort has been ongoing for more than a month. According to White House records of the cleanup attempt, response vessels have been engaged in cleanup activities continuously since April 23. Since that time, the following resources have been employed:

Total active response vessels: more than 1,200
Containment boom deployed: more than 1.75 million feet

Containment boom available: more than 380,000 feet

Sorbent boom deployed: more than 990,000 feet

Sorbent boom available: more than 1.07 million feet

Total boom deployed: more than 2.74 million feet (regular plus sorbent boom)

Total boom available: more than 1.45 million feet (regular plus sorbent boom)

Oily water recovered: more than 10.83 million gallons

Surface dispersant used: approximately 700,000 gallons

Subsea dispersant used: approximately 115,000

Total dispersant used: approximately 815,000

Dispersant available: more than 300,000 gallons

Overall personnel responding: more than 22,000
Army Corps reportedly responded to Louisiana's barrier plan with concerns that it would drive oil into Mississippi


AP: Army Corps documents say barriers "could instead funnel oil into more unprotected areas and into neighboring Mississippi." The Associated Press reported on May 26 that the Army Corps of Engineers released documents that day that "signaled support for parts of the state plan, including berms that would be built onto existing barrier islands," but stated that parts of the plan "could inadvertently alter tides and end up driving oil east -- into Mississippi Sound, the Biloxi Marshes and Lake Borgne." From the article:
A wall of sand that Louisiana officials have requested to block the Gulf of Mexico slick could instead funnel oil into more unprotected areas and into neighboring Mississippi, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said in documents released Wednesday.
Gov. Bobby Jindal and leaders from several coastal parishes want to ring the state's southeastern coastline with a $350 million, 86-mile network of sand berms. However, the corps says the barrier could inadvertently alter tides and end up driving oil east -- into Mississippi Sound, the Biloxi Marshes and Lake Borgne.

[...]

Eager to build the berms before the damage gets worse, Louisiana officials said they were willing to delay construction on parts of the barrier to avoid swamping Mississippi with oil.

Millions of gallons are still swirling in the Gulf. Supporters of the sand berms say oil could keep hitting Louisiana's coastline for months.

In documents released Wednesday by the state, the corps signaled support for parts of the state plan, including berms that would be built onto existing barrier islands.

The agency said that if the 6-foot-high sand barriers worked, they could capture oil and allow skimmer boats to more effectively scoop floating crude.

The section highlighted as a possible hazard to Mississippi would connect from the Chandeleur Islands to the marshes in eastern Plaquemines Parish.
AP: Army Corps previously said it was "working as quickly as possible" on permit request "but still has to follow" federal law. The AP reported on May 24 that "the Corps said it is working as quickly as possible on the emergency permit request -- but still has to follow various steps required by federal law." From the article:
In a statement, the Corps said the state's application is being processed as an emergency permit. The agency said that under federal law, the Corps had to comment on the proposal, leading the state to file a revised plan on May 14. The agency said the information is now being evaluated for potential environmental impacts.

The Corps said it is working closely with the state -- and will make a decision as quickly as possible.

Experts have questioned the effectiveness and long-term impact of Jindal's barrier plan

AP: "[E]xperts and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency have questioned whether the barrier system could be completed in time." The May 26 AP article also quoted Len Bahr, who "served as a coastal adviser to five Louisiana governors, including Jindal," saying, "The horses are already out of the barn. The oil is already out there." From the article: Some independent experts and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency have questioned whether the barrier system could be completed in time to keep out the oil.
"The horses are already out of the barn. The oil is already out there," said Len Bahr, who served as a coastal adviser to five Louisiana governors, including Jindal.
Adm. Allen: Building barriers of that scope "is going to take a very, very long time" and "significant amount of resources" that "might be applied elsewhere." During a May 24 press conference, Adm. Thad Allen was asked about Jindal's "frustrat[ion] that the federal government was not being responsive to the requests." Allen responded that the Corps was working on a review of "cost and the schedule, the feasibility, the engineering issues associated with" the plan and that "building a set of barrier islands and berms that large is going to take a very, very long time even by the state's own estimate -- six to nine months in some cases -- and a significant amount of resources associated with that that might be applied elsewhere."
Times-Picayune: Plan "raises considerable financial and ecological questions." The Times-Picayune reported on May 21 that "while Jindal and the state's congressional delegation have waged an us-vs.-them battle with the federal government over what they term a slow, bureaucratic response, the state's plan itself is a work in progress that raises considerable financial and ecological questions." From the article: But while Jindal and the state's congressional delegation have waged an us-vs.-them battle with the federal government over what they term a slow, bureaucratic response, the state's plan itself is a work in progress that raises considerable financial and ecological questions.
[...]
Though less objectionable to the scientific and environmental community, the new plan would require dredges to transport sand from a borrow site to the island creation spot -- adding significant additional time and costs to the project.
[...]
While many scientists and environmental groups applaud Jindal's efforts to deal with a potentially catastrophic threat to the state's ecosystem, there are fears about using the state's precious sand resources to build berms that are destined to be fouled by oil.
Weathers: Barrier plan is "not going to get completed" in time. The Times-Picayune quoted Dallon Weathers, a geologist at the University of New Orleans, saying, "This thing is not going to get completed in a timeframe that's on the same schedule as this spill."
Lopez: "Need to make sure" barriers are "something that you're not going to regret later." The Times-Picayune quoted John Lopez, a coastal sustainability director for the Lake Pontchartrain Basin Foundation, saying, "I think you have to consider these islands as much as possible in this emergency situation, but you really need to make sure you're doing something that you're not going to regret later. ... Obviously this is an emergency situation, but quality sand for barrier islands is not an unlimited resource in Louisiana, and we would not want to see depletion of the quality of sand that could be used down the road."
Stone: "Foolish to embark on a project of this scale without establishing potential negative impacts." The Christian Science Monitor reported on May 24 that according to Gregory Stone, a professor of oceanography at Louisiana State University, "tate leaders are not ... considering questions about its long-term effects on the coastal environment." Stone reportedly added: "This is a mammoth engineering project, and it can be done, but it's being done willy-nilly. It's foolish to embark on a project of this scale without establishing potential negative impacts on currents, on coastal erosion, on wildlife habitat, on whole range of environmental issues."
NY Times: Experts "concerned" that using "scarce sand" for temporary gain could compromise long-term restoration. The New York Times reported on May 21 that "many experts say it is not at all clear whether dredging companies could build up the barrier islands quickly enough to save the marshes. They are also concerned that the kind of sand berms envisioned in the plan might wash away quickly after a couple of storms, wasting scarce sand in the region." The Times reported that Stone "said that dredging and pumping large amounts of sand amid Louisiana's complex inlets and bays could harm ocean life" and that "any plan required closer study before it is put in place." It also reported: The governor's plan would not permanently rebuild degraded coastal islands -- a delicate and complex process that has been planned for years. A temporary sand barrier could wash away in a matter of months, experts said. And the type of sand necessary for long-term coastal restoration is in short supply along Louisiana's shoreline.
"If we use the good sand that we have for this quick-and-dirty berm, and a storm comes in and spreads it around, we've lost the major sand resource that we wanted to use for barrier-island restoration," Dr. Reed said. "We could compromise the long-term restoration of the coast for a short-term gain."
Right now, the chain of barrier islands has very little protection. Asbury H. Sallenger Jr., an oceanographer with the United States Geological Survey, said the Chandeleur Islands lost the majority of their surface area during Hurricane Katrina. Even a strong wind can push a surge of water over the island, he said.
But Dr. Sallenger, like other experts, noted that the dredging project would take months to complete, and the oil is already showing up in the marshes. "My first question is whether such a thing could be done, from a scientific basis, quickly enough to be useful," he said.


damned if he does..damned if he doesn't. Obama dressed in rain gear scooping up chunks of tar isn't going to plug the hole. People want the president himself to be assertive but aren't stating in what exact ways that matter.

You can send a million troops down there to help with clean up but as long as millions of barrels are pouring out every day it doesn't matter. The problem is the well needs to be plugged until that happens any efforts to do anything are going to be inadequate.

And NO ONE has made the case that the gov't can do that better or faster than BP at this point.
 
The first thing Barack Obama probably should have done was to order the livestreaming Oil Spill Cam to be turned off. As the President insisted to Americans that he was "singularly focused" on staunching the flow, there was that mesmerising image on their television screens of plumes of hydrocarbons gushing relentlessly into the Gulf of Mexico.


When any political leader feels they have to declare that they are "fully engaged" in an issue, it is clear that they are in trouble. Talking about it undermines the very point you are trying to make - not to mention that pesky Oil Spill Cam showing that, 38 days into the Deepwater Horizon disaster, not a whole lot had been achieved.


Even judging Obama by his words, he has fallen woefully short over what has now eclipsed the 1989 Exxon Valdez wreck as biggest oil spill catastrophe in American history. He may have described it as an "unprecedented disaster" in last Thursday's press conference but a week into the crisis he was blithely stating that "this incident is of national significance" and rest assured he was receiving "frequent briefings" about it.

George W Bush's unpopularity and perceived incompetence was encapsulated by the way he dealt with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Candidate Obama branded it "unconscionable incompetence".

Central to Obama's appeal was his promise to be truly different. His failure to achieve that is now at the core of the deep disappointment Americans feel about him. At the press conference - the first full-scale affair he had deigned to give for 309 days - he appeared uncomfortable and petulant.

His approach to the issue was that of the law student suddenly fascinated by a science project. He displayed none of the visceral indignation Americans feel about pretty much everything these days - two-thirds now say they are "angry" about the way things are going - resorting instead to Spock-like technocratic language and legalese. "I'm not contradicting my prior point," he stated at one juncture. During those 63 minutes of soporific verbosity, about 800 barrels of oil poured into the Gulf.

Obama engaged in the obligatory populist bashing of Big Oil and, of course, demonstrated the Obama administration's version of Tourette's Syndrome, blaming the previous administration for the situation when, by my reckoning, it's a full 16 months since Bush left office.

By Friday, he was sticking his finger in the sand at Grand Isle, Louisiana as part of a photo op self-consciously designed to contrast with Bush's famous looking down on the Katrina devastation from Air Force One. It was Obama's second visit to Louisiana in the 39 days since disaster struck. According to C'BS's Mark Knoller, in the same period Bush visited the post-Katrina region seven times.

But perhaps the most dangerous sign during the press conference for Democrats fearful of an unprecedented electoral disaster in November's mid-term elections was the evasion and opacity of the man who promised a new era of transparency and a different kind of politics.

When asked about the resignation of the director of the Minerals Management Service - an agency he had excoriated - he professed that "I don't know the circumstances in which this occurred". She had, of course, been fired.

Even worse was Obama's refusal to say anything about the growing furore over White House attempts to persuade Congressman Joe Sestak to pull out of the Democratic Senate primary contest in Pennsylvania. Obama's advisers had preferred the Republican turncoat Senator Arlen Specter - and Sestak inconveniently let slip that he'd been offered a government job to step aside.
That was potentially illegal and for weeks the White House stonewalled. When, even more inconveniently, Sestak beat Specter, the trust-us-nothing-untoward-happened approach would no longer wash. But still Obama declined to answer the question on Thursday, fobbing the reporter – and America – off with the promise that "there will be an official response shortly on the Sestak issue".

This did indeed come the following day – conveniently timed for that Friday afternoon news void before the Memorial Day holiday weekend. Lo and behold, it turns out that none other than former President Bill Clinton was asked by Obama's chief of staff and Chicago enforcer Rahm Emanuel to offer Sestak a place on a presidential board.

Whether or not the law was broken, the cynicism of this is breathtaking. Obama offered a break from the Clinton-Bush past and an end to the shoddy backroom deals of Washington. So what does he do? He tries to deny Pennsylvania voters a chance to decide for themselves by using his former foe Clinton to offer a grubby inducement.

It was perhaps a fitting end to one of the worst weeks of Obama presidency, in which a Rasmussen one poll pegged his popularity at a new low of 42 percent. In an environment in which Americans are disillusioned and cynical about Washington and all it stands for, the Clinton-Sestak manoeuvre could be a political calamity for Obama.

Perhaps he should be grateful after all that the Oil Spill Cam was still beaming up footage from the sea bed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/7783408/Barack-Obamas-credibility-hits-rock-bottom-after-oil-spill-and-Sestak-scandal.html
 
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