Evolution versus Creationism

Well, what i meant was how do we know your particular brand of faith (i.e. Christianity) is correct? Maybe the jews have the right god? Or the buddists are in on the real deal, and we christians are all just barking in the dark? Is there any evidence that vindicates the bible over other religous manuscripts?
 
Why is it dumb people make fun of persons using their intelligence? They accuse others of being arrogant or condescending or "psuedointellectual."
Did it ever occur to you, Archaic Guy, that all these other people are simply smarter than you? You are the one that neeRAB superstition to make it through the day. Look up "projection" in a psychology book sometime.
 
Who is it you claim is using their intelligence moose ? Surely not you morons who claim to know what happened from anywhere between 100,000 years ago and 5.4 billion years ago based on TOTALLY unreliable junk science and ridiculous assumptions that you couldn't prove if you had another 100,000 years. So who is being arrogant and condescending ? It's you pseudo intellectuals who place your faith in lies and fraudulent science while looking down on people of faith as ignorant simpletons. Nice job, really. :xgood:



No, it never once occurred to me. Why ? Because I know the wisdom of this World is foolishness to God, and you will know it too someday. Also, I'm not the one claiming to have come from an animal, talk about archaic beliefs. And it isn't me that believes in superstitions to make it through the day. It is you who worships at the alter of mans false beliefs that we evolved by accident, by a fluke of nature side by side of a complete animal kingdom that we left in the creative dust. All because we were just lucky I guess, huh ? Take your fairy tales and your so called superior intellect. I'll take my foolishness any day.



blah blah blah, Go tell it to a gullible 6 year old. I'm beyond your lowly preconceived notions and assumptions that degrade humanity to that of a soulless beast.
 
These are the discoverys made by researchers such as Jane Goodall et al. documented, filmed, seen repeated across many years, Indeed JG has been in the field since 1965 so that's the observations of 42 years straight off the bat. As usual you make up your deceit on the hoof which are as transparent as clingfilm.
DNA on human relatives; this is difficult due to the nature of chemical decay inherant in the process of preservation however the Complete DNA profile of Homo neanderthalensis is due in the next few months. Already the preliminary results have shown that several genes (PDHA1, microcephalin, RRM2P4) found in the modern human population could have originated in neanderthals.

Lucy as non-human ancestor; How many apes do you know of that walk with an upright posture? Lucy's pelvis and skull make this clear that she stood on two legs.
Again all you post are unfounded lies that don't bear the merest scrutiny.
 
There's a key divide for most literal creationists. They say evolution isn't true and all of the science behind it is false, but in their real lives they practice and accept huge amounts of it. They take antibotics that are designed to deal with superbugs, they fill their cars with gas found by geology, they live in a world founded by better living through chemistry, I can go on for days about how literal creationists preach one thing yet embrace wholehardly the foundation that supports evolution. But then again, they are hypocrites.
 
it is time to be HONEST! When was this theory of evolution created? Hmm..., oh yeah, like in the 1800's! And how was it created? Hmm..., when a guy who was supposed to be a preacher but diluted himself into thinking that there is no God. He made himself an antagonist! You secularists are doing the same thing! You're fooling yourselves into thinking that evolution, or as I like to call it, "evilution" is true! This is only happening because you aren't taking Creation into consideration, evolution's all you've been taught! If you only once tried to devote as much time on Creation as you do for evolution, you'll see that there is no possible way that evolution is true! I mean, how can there be a creation with no creator? And if you want to prove your point, stop saying "there is no God" everytime you try to disprove Creation! Try reading the Bible, I mean, it won't kill you just to read it! And no offense but all you've proven is that the only type evolution that's true is the evolution of the agnostics. I'm not calling you fools, I know you are smart people! But I mean, look at an ape, do you really want to be related to that? The God Christians believe in does have the right to hate us, but yet, if He wasn't a merciful God, then He wouldn't give us hope! Quit asking "if God was so great, then why would this and that happen" and start looking @ the solution! The reason for this is because man sinned (Genesis 3, a chpt. in the book of the Bible). Sin brought horrible things into the world! If He isn't real, then that means that the disciples were lying this whole time! But, they were honest people! They couldn't live w/ themselves if they were lying this whole time! And even if they did, how would a belief last for so long? And you'd hate to hear me say this but the founders of science were Christians! Issac Newton, known for discovering gravity, is one example. Please, just try to read the Bible sometime in your life! Please try to read the whole book! It's a true blessing! I recommend reading about prophecy, can you imagine, the same things written in the Bible is happening today!
 
i never did biology, but is it not that the bacteria build up resistance to the antibiotics? Is that not exactly the point that archie is trying to refute? Not him, but the bacteria evolve?
 
Then you are calling the G-d you believe in by faith a liar my friend. Because as a Jew you should know that He inspired the book in which the account of the Great Flood is told.



Bad news again my brother. The Messiah has already come once and is soon to be returning. He came not to judge the Law but to fulfill it, which He did. Only when He returns, "Then nation will not threaten nation, and mankind will not again know war." ~The Bible.



Agreed, but where does it say we can pick and choose that which we choose to believe in the Word He gave us ? Don't you see how that is mocking God and calling Him a liar ?



You contradict yourself bmittking. You evolutionists can't have it both ways with common sense or with me. It can be shown that Bacterial viruses REPRODUCE. But reproducing isn't evolving but is changing the oRABpring due to the mating process and the joining of the two unique cells. It has nothing to do with evolution. See ?

http://www.dnaftb.org/dnaftb/18/concept/index.html

Now why dont you boys consider the reality of rapid adaptation and generational conjugation and forget these childish fairy tales that bad people tell you about to make you feel smart and like you actually know something, nkaaaay ? :xgood:
 
Really ? Amazing, if it is actually proven to be true. But unfortunately even if it is, it does nothing to prove that Neanderthal was a human descendant because the modern day chimp has 98% of our genetic makeup yet is very obviously a lower animal. Here is the value of the massive assumptions you are relying on when using this flimsy science as evidence of mans evolution. The most dedicated evolutionist cannot overcome the problems and flaws with this junk science that is in fact the religion of the humanist. Let me tell you ripskar, your religion is a cult, and a false one at that.
 
Well, I'm not sure what the importance of this date you've chosen is (or if you've just chosen randomly), but if you are trying to talk about the age of the earth, it is around 4.56 billion years or so old, not 5.4 billion years.



You shouldn't speak so harshly about your relatives, Archie. I think it is hilarious that creationists of your ilk get their panties in a bunch when the "evilutionists" tell the truth about us being animals just like every other animal in the world.

As to the rest of your post, all I see are the delusional rantings of a creationist that knows next to nothing about science.
 
Couldn't God have made life on a far off planet that we have yet to find? Could it be the reason why there are some planets that have no life is that God likes creating planets, after all he is ever-creating? Could it be that we can never know, until we are dead (possibly), what truly, 100%, happened at the beginning?

Until then, we should be able to practice our faith without people calling us "ignorant" because we don't believe that the world randomly occurred, as well as yourself being said the same to. If we (both faithful & unfaithful) want to convert people to our point of view, we should not do so by condemning the other for such things as "ignorance."
 
Hence why I made the comment. People can gain allergic reactions to certain drugs but that's virtually always genetic. Either arch is confusing resistance with allergies or he's completely full of #### and wrong as usual. I'm voting on the later.



Yes. But he won't see it that way.
 
I must disagree on both counts unkerpaulie. As one who sought to know God on a personal level, I have received physical and observable evidence of His love PERSONALLY on too many occasions to list here over the past 32 years. Our God is a personal God and interacts with (believers) His children, otherwise referred to as members of the body of Christ on a moment by moment basis through out our lives. Just as God did miracles in the Old Testament that only the recipients, ie the Jewish People recognized as supernatural interventions. It is the same today for the Christian Community as we experience many miracles within our individual communities that involve interactions with a personal and very actively involved God.



This statement is both true and untrue as God doesn't promise us a smooth and trouble free ride through life, but He does promise us that He will be there to catch us on the other end of this ride called life. And if you want to compare life to a roller coaster ride then God is in the seat right next to us for the complete ride to those who believe and trust Him with their lives.

Hbr 13:5 [Let your] conduct [be] without covetousness; [be] content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."​

That promise is reliable and trustworthy on all counts. Of that you can be sure.



No where did that passage say that the righteous would never be tempted, only that He will see us through them and with His help we can overcome the temptations that ensnare the unsaved man. And no where are christians promised that disaster or accidents in life wont touch us also. But again, God will be there to protect us from bad things happening according to His perfect will.

If something bad happens to me in life; I don't ask God why, but I ask Him what He wants me to learn from this tragedy or disaster. I understand that by being in this World that I am in the devils playground and as such, the enemy of humanity is attempting to destroy me as a warrior for God because the unsaved people are already his. He doesn't have to attack, beat down or neutralize them as they are already defeated.

Satan can strike an unbeliever any way he wants to and all they do is flop around on the plate of life like a dying fish. But when he attacks a believer, we know the source of the attack so we turn to God for help in getting past it. Satan seeks to beat believers down and neutralize our walk because only believers are actively involved in the spiritual battle between Good and Evil that is taking place in this World for the souls of humanity.


2Ti 2:3
You therefore must endure[fn1] harRABhip as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Ti 2:4
No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.
2Ti 2:5
And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.
2Ti 2:6
The hardworking farmer must be first to partake of the crops.
2Ti 2:7
Consider what I say, and may[fn2] the Lord give you understanding in all things.
2Ti 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel,
2Ti 2:9
for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of chains; but the word of God is not chained.
2Ti 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11
This is a faithful saying:

For if we died with Him,
We shall also live with Him.
2Ti 2:12
If we endure,
We shall also reign with Him.
If we deny Him,
He also will deny us.
2Ti 2:13
If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.​

Note the bolded above: Even if we are faithless at times, our father is faithful because He understanRAB our weakness in this flesh. He also loves us so much and is so patient with us that it is indescribable from the human perspective. God is not the evil heartless murdering bully that the atheist, in all of their ignorant anti-christian hatred will accuse Him of being.

And why would you allow someone who admittedly doesn't believe in God and doesn't know Him to define Him for you in any way shape or form? Wouldn't you reasonably go to someone with a personal relationship with the person you are investigating in order to find out what kind of person He really is?



I completely understand your perspective from a Worldly point of view. But spiritually speaking I have had the opposite experience. I know that even though bad things happen to good people that God is always present and there to see us through it. You must understand that God is less concerned with the flesh of this World than He is with our Spirits that will survive for all of eternity. This life is the proving ground of life, so to speak. And our Father wants us to learn and fellowship with Him. To seek His Will for our lives and to overcome the enemy who seeks to destroy our testimony in order to draw people from the love of the living God.

If you could just grasp the spiritual battle that Man is involved in you would see clearly what is important in life and realize that the 80 to 100 years that we live in this World is equivalent to a drop of water compared to the whole glass when considered against the unending eternity that we will live in the spirit. That's why He tells us to seek first the kingdom of God and all these things shall be added unto you. Again, this passage explains the journey better than I ever could.

1Cr 15:28
Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
1Cr 15:29
Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?
1Cr 15:30
And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour?
1Cr 15:31
I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
1Cr 15:32
If, in the manner of men, I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantage is it to me? If the dead do not rise, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!"[fn2]
1Cr 15:33
Do not be deceived: "Evil company corrupts good habits."
1Cr 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
1Cr 15:35
But someone will say, "How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?"
1Cr 15:36
Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies.
1Cr 15:37
And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain--perhaps wheat or some other grain.
1Cr 15:38
But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body.
1Cr 15:39
All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh[fn3] of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birRAB.
1Cr 15:40
There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Cr 15:41
There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
1Cr 15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption.
1Cr 15:43
It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.
1Cr 15:44
It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45
And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being."[fn4] The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
1Cr 15:46
However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.
1Cr 15:47
The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord[fn5] from heaven.
1Cr 15:48
As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly.
1Cr 15:49
And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear[fn6] the image of the heavenly Man.
1Cr 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
1Cr 15:51
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
1Cr 15:52
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Cr 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Cr 15:54
So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."[fn7]

1Cr 15:55
"O Death, where is your sting?[fn8]
O Hades, where is your victory?"[fn9]

1Cr 15:56
The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
1Cr 15:57
But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cr 15:58
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.​
 
A.) Read above post.

B.) My answer to your question lies in the two TRUE reasons that Christians detest evolution. Not that evolution meddles in their version of history. Not that evolution messes with "in God's image, etc." Here it is.

Christianity teaches that all of recorded and unrecorded time has been steadily progressing since its origin to humans. Everything was created for Archie and Archie is the end result. Archie will live forever. Archie is the peak. Evolution just says that Archie is narcissistic. Evolution says that Archie is just another cog.

Second, chance is the enemy of a good Christian. Everything has a purpose, a meaning. Evolution is about chance.

So, the fact that we have found no other planet like earth, but have found evidence of planets that seemed to have partial components of that which is essential and conducive to life as we know it is beneficial to my argument.

Your question to me was my question to you Archie. Seriously, you are doing so much damage to intelligent, thinking Christians. I know several. They would be embarrassed by you.

One other thing that might do you some good. Think about the Jesus of your Bible. Who did he have a problem with? The prostitutes? No, they became his beloved. The atheists? No, they became his disciples.

It was the DOGMATIC, the RELIGIOUS that Jesus drove from the temple in rage. It was the RELIGIOUS that put him to death.

Jesus, I think, would be disappointed with you. You are doing nothing but driving people further away. Look at the teachings of Jesus. Look at yours. Night and day.
 
Given the mountains of evidence for Evolution, I strongly trust that Evolution does indeed happen. Also, regarding explanations of the mechanism behind Evolution, it seems that, though there may be some details to iron out, the Theory of Evolution does explain the changes fairly well.

As for whether or not there was any supernatural influence in Evolution, there is no evidence of such a supernatural influence. However, it would be hard to disprove that God may have subtly influenced the flow of Evolution so I still leave that as a possibility. It just seems that, if an omnipotent God did exist and human beings were central to His goals, then the extremely slow methoRAB of Evolution would seem like a very roundabout and inefficient way of getting there. Any tentative beliefs that I hold, then, on the supernatural and God are not traditional since traditional beliefs would require one to ignore much of the evidence presented by Science.

Luckily, various traditional or conventional Christian groups do seem to slowly (too slowly in my view) adapt to the realities discovered by Science. The Roman Catholic Church has already accepted Evolution as the means in which humans physically (if not spiritually) developed - presumably guided by the hand of God. It would be interesting to learn (which I have not taken the trouble of doing) how they would reconcile the thought of God being omnipotent with His using such an inefficient method.

That being said, there are also many Christian groups which will never adapt their beliefs to the evidence of Science. Unfortunately, they are gaining numbers.
 
One must be careful of how far they open it - their minRAB just may fall out (i.e. Creationism).

Oh, BTW, you need to work on a convincing argument (hint - first, show how all of reality is wrong. Second, show that God exists, and which God this is: Norse, Egyptian, Mayan, Islamic, etc. Third, show that said God actually did said creating). then we can talk.
 
This post is a blatant lie that must disregard numerous posts of mine on this very thread that are for the most part unrefuted evidence that support my position clearly. I marvel at how your side can deny opposing views by simply ignoring them while plowing through with your unprovable assumptions. Here's a good example of evidence that has gone ignored by your side. If these basic inconsistencies in evo can't be reasonably overcome with true facts, then the whole science must be questioned as suspect.

You shouldn't have to make giant leaps of faith in order to accept this science. And neither should you have to ignore facts that contradict what evo claims in order to believe it. If it was true than it would stand on its own and since we have dug up the fossil remains of animals going back hundreRAB of millions of years allegedly, then we WOULD HAVE TO HAVE FOUND TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS BY NOW; IF THEY TRULY EXISTED THAT IS. AND I MEAN TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS IN EVERY TYPE OF SPECIES THAT HAS EXISTED. INSTEAD, WE HAVE FOUND NONE.

You can't have it both ways evolutionists, you can't claim on the one hand that the fossil record is so complete evo must be true, yet make flimsy excuses attempting to justify and even ignore the fact that Transitional fossils have never been found. You talk about denial and brainwashing, not to mention wishful thinking; this is why I call this alleged science a fairy tale for adults. Like it or not, Creationism and Intelligent Design is far more believable and possible than this secular humanist and atheistic religion.

The Fossil Record

A transitional fossil is the fossil remains of a creature that exhibits primitive traits in comparison with the more derived life-forms it is related to. According to evolutionary theory, a transitional form represents an evolutionary stage.

But the fossil record has been against the Darwinian theory from the very beginning. It's true that different kinRAB of organisms lived on the earth at different times. But what is not seen in the fossil record is the steady progressive change of one kind of thing into something completely different. Instead, if something new shows up in the rocks, it shows up all at once and fully formed, and then it stays the same.

If evolution means the steady progressive change of one kind of thing into something completely different, then the fossil record contradicts evolution.

Given the absence of transitional forms in the fossil record, evolutionists quietly acknowledge this is still a "research issue".

There is virtually nothing in the fossil record that can be used as evidence of a transitional life form When apparent examples of useful mutations are examined thoroughly, it becomes clear that no transitional creatures exist anywhere in the fossil record.

John Bonner, a biologist at Princeton, writes that traditional textbook discussions of ancestral descent are "a festering mass of unsupported assertions." In recent years, paleontologists have retreated from simple connect-the-dot scenarios linking earlier and later species. Instead of ladders, they now talk of bushes. What we see in the fossils, according to this view, are only the twigs, the final end-products of evolution, while the key transitional forms which would give a clue about the origin of major animal groups remain completely hidden.

The blank spots on evolutionary "tree" charts occur at just the points where, according to Darwin's theory, the crucial changes had to take place. The direct ancestors of all the major orders: primates, carnivores, and so forth are completely missing. There is no fossil evidence for a "grandparent" of the monkey, for example. "Modern gorillas, orangutans, and chimpanzees spring out of nowhere," writes paleontologist Donald Johansen. "They are here today; they have no yesterday." The same is true of giraffes, elephants, wolves, and all species; they all simply burst upon the scene de novo [anew], as it were.

So many questions arise in the study of fossils (paleontology) that even many evolutionary paleontologists put little stock in the fossil record. Basing one's belief in evolution on the shaky ground of paleontology can scarcely be considered scientific.

"We are about 120 years after Darwin and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million species but the situation hasn't changed much. The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin's time. By this I mean that some of the classic cases of darwinian change in the fossil record, such as the evolution of the horse in North America, have had to be discarded or modified as a result of more detailed information .... " - D. Raup, "Conflicts Between Darwin and Paleontology," Field Museum of Natural History Bulletin, vol. 50 (1), p. 24, 25

The fossil record is often so sparse that . . . there are numerous cases where groups would have had to have survived for tens of millions of years [ET*] without leaving a single fossil.

A criticism of the evolutionary idea was, and is, the lack of the hypothesized intermediates between one species and another. If land animals truly came from sea creatures, one would expect to find plenty of evidence of this, such as fossils of fish with their fins turning into legs. Darwin wrote in his Origin of Species that "innumerable transitional forms must have existed." The predicted large numbers of fossil intermediate forms were never found.

​
 
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