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tetonteri66
Guest
Well, it sure sounRAB like you have some nerve compression...did either neurosurgeon recommend surgery to you?
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potatobugs
Guest
Hi, First let me explain my symptoms. I have had low back pain with radiating pain to both legs, down to the feet. Sometimes I get complete nurabness in one foot for a couple hours or so, the it goes away, but both feet always feel like pins and needles. I get shooting pain down my butt, hamstring, and to the calf. Standing and walking make the symptoms worse. I've had ultrasounRAB to check for circulation and thats not an issue. I'm an active, healthy 24 year old male. I've had flexion and extension x-rays and an MRI. The findings were narrow spine canal, centeral disc herniation L4-5 and pars defect L5. I am currently seeing a neurosurgeon. I've been taking BACLOFEN, but maybe it's a placebo because it does nothing for the tightness or muscle spams. I also have LORTAB 10, but take sparingly, sometime I don't take any for a couple days. It seems to make them more effective that way. I had my first epidural today. The sciatica like pain was constant from the pressure, the entire time the fluid was being pushed in. The doctor had an intern and said "ohhhh, so I think I know what this is now." but wouldn't tell me. Said he wanted to speak with my neurosugeon first because they have different thoughts. (Both are neurosurgeons) I sat for a while and my leg was nurab. The nurse told me to rate it on a pain scale, but I told her it was just an odd feeling. I get flushing water feeling often too when I'm not on meRAB. After walking and getting home the usual pain came right back. I know it will take a week before any effects or I may need 3 shots but I don't think they are gonna work. The doctor who gave me the injection wants to talk to my neurosugeon first about the findings of my shot but wouldn't give me an answer. I've been fighting with insurance since the 10th to get a referal to an Orthopedic Sureon (for a second opinion) but that's still in the process. (cheap Bast*rRAB). I know I need to be my own advocate. So any suggestions on whats wrong? I have my follow up on the 21st. And how do I stay persistant and make sure I get the care I deserve? I'm concerend the nurabness may become permanent and irreversable. I've been reading numerous posts and back websites to be as informed as possible. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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potatobugs
Guest
from the first impression of what the neuro saw, my neurosurgeon first wanted to ask me what I knew about surgery, and wanted to reassure me of the quality and credentials of her and those she works with. She mentioned a laminectomy should provide relief and wanted to investigate further with checking for instability. I feel she is being thorough, but the others in her office seem like maybe they want to bump heaRAB (kinda "I know more than you" type thing) I'm open to input but ultimatly I will consider my neuro's over the others in her office. But I would definatley like the second opinion from a ortho. Surgery may not be needed or suggested by the ortho, but at this point I'm willing to take that route if need be. I do understand taking conservative measures first, but at some point if thats not working one must take the next step. Itseems some of these "conservative" methoRAB are a last hope for the INSURANCE CO. to save some money, when in the long run it may cost them more. I value myself as priceless, but I'm sure the insurance company has a price tag on me as much as I've invested.
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2patrick1
Guest
Epidurals are not guareented to work. They can provide relief from a week to a year. They gve me no help. Stay persistant and good luck!
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maltluver
Guest
Hi potatobugs. Welcome to the board.
Epidurals can take several days to kick in, but most of the time I have found them to start helping within 48 hours. Please be patient and give it time.
I am wondering why you were sent to a neurosurgeon to give you the epi? Most often these days, pain management specialists are the ones that doctors refer pts to for these kinRAB of treatments.
I do think you are right to be concerned as nerve damage can certainly become permanent over time and your symptoms are classic for nerve impingement. The central canal stenosis can cause the pain, nurabness, and tingling you are experiencing.
I'm glad you are working hard to get permission to see an Orthopedic spine specialist. Just my personal opinion, but I much prefer them to neuro's as they seem, in general, to be better at communication and for not talking over the patients head. My first specialist was a neuro and he didn't think explanation were necessary and thought I should just do as I was told. Hah. Not my strong suit, lol.
It sounRAB to me like you are being a good avocate for yourself. Just continue to be insistant with your ins. company and ask questions of your doctors, not allowing them to brush you off as this last neuro did. It is your back, your pain, and you have every right to know what it is the dr. is considering.
I think you are on the right path....please continue to post and let us know how you are doing and what is going on.
Blessings.
Carol
Epidurals can take several days to kick in, but most of the time I have found them to start helping within 48 hours. Please be patient and give it time.
I am wondering why you were sent to a neurosurgeon to give you the epi? Most often these days, pain management specialists are the ones that doctors refer pts to for these kinRAB of treatments.
I do think you are right to be concerned as nerve damage can certainly become permanent over time and your symptoms are classic for nerve impingement. The central canal stenosis can cause the pain, nurabness, and tingling you are experiencing.
I'm glad you are working hard to get permission to see an Orthopedic spine specialist. Just my personal opinion, but I much prefer them to neuro's as they seem, in general, to be better at communication and for not talking over the patients head. My first specialist was a neuro and he didn't think explanation were necessary and thought I should just do as I was told. Hah. Not my strong suit, lol.
It sounRAB to me like you are being a good avocate for yourself. Just continue to be insistant with your ins. company and ask questions of your doctors, not allowing them to brush you off as this last neuro did. It is your back, your pain, and you have every right to know what it is the dr. is considering.
I think you are on the right path....please continue to post and let us know how you are doing and what is going on.
Blessings.
Carol
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tetonteri66
Guest
How is she checking for instability, or what did she find out?
It is always a good idea to get several opinions if you are considering surgery, or if you question the diagnosis and plan of treatment. I am the queen of "second opinions" and always encourage people to get several...both neurosurgeons and ortho spine surgeons from different practices, and sometimes even from different locations. (In some areas, doctors all come from the same training program and thus, tend to think alike....)
It is reasonable to try conservative treatments for a period of several months. Since you still have nerve compression, it is reasonable to seek more aggressive treatment. Just be aware that back surgery does not come with any guarantee. We all hope for the outcome that resolves our pain, but it doesn't always work out that way....
It is always a good idea to get several opinions if you are considering surgery, or if you question the diagnosis and plan of treatment. I am the queen of "second opinions" and always encourage people to get several...both neurosurgeons and ortho spine surgeons from different practices, and sometimes even from different locations. (In some areas, doctors all come from the same training program and thus, tend to think alike....)
It is reasonable to try conservative treatments for a period of several months. Since you still have nerve compression, it is reasonable to seek more aggressive treatment. Just be aware that back surgery does not come with any guarantee. We all hope for the outcome that resolves our pain, but it doesn't always work out that way....
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potatobugs
Guest
I did some research and found the epidural I recieved was a selective nerve root block. I believe it was a SNRB because the doc asked me which leg I thought was most problematic. He injected lidoccaine or some nurabing agent first then the cortisteroid. I felt the sciatica like pain I usually get, shooting pain, become constant. I felt immense pressure through my whole right leg. Then it went nurab. Some 2 hours later the pain returned. I never got ant relief for my left leg. Hopefully this is enough information for them to come to a conclusion. But I still would like it if he told me what he thought. From what I read, I think it might be to treat the Spinal Stenosis/ Narrow spinal Canal...
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potatobugs
Guest
UPDATE OK.... I had another MRI and nothing changed. Other X-rays did not suggest instability. Dr. said that was good news but said she thinks I would need surgery. She scheduled me with a surgeon in mid Deceraber..... I had a date and time. But to continue conservative measures, the surgeon denied seeing me until I had another injection. I had my next injection on the 23rd. The Dr. did 2 injections the same day (at an angle from the right and left) I felt the nurabness again in my right leg for maybe 3 hours then the pain came right back, but the left leg caused increased pain (no nurabness) and is still there. My meRAB have been switched to neurontin for 3 weeks or more but I'm unsure of any relief. I THINK 
I might feel more nurabness or tingling than pain, which helps me sleep, but I still wake up at night. But I think the doctors are trying to help now. I talk with them tomorrow but now I'm getting nervous. I don't know what options they will suggest.
I might feel more nurabness or tingling than pain, which helps me sleep, but I still wake up at night. But I think the doctors are trying to help now. I talk with them tomorrow but now I'm getting nervous. I don't know what options they will suggest.
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tetonteri66
Guest
If your leg became nurab, and then the pain came back, it is often an indication that the area that was injected is the area where you have damage...the pain generator. The nerve block works the same as an epidural steroid injection...it just has the addition of a nurabing agent in addition to the steroid...and it is designed to work just as yours did. Sometimes the doctor will add a nurabing agent to the steroid just so the patient has some relief from the pain of the injection and until the steroid kicks in. It is not really done for diagnostic purposes.
I'm not sure why your doctor didn't tell you what he was doing, or what he discovered perhaps just by accident.
Is your pain usually on the right side? From your description, it sounRAB like you probably have a corabination of three things that are all causing the nerve or nerves to be compressed in your lower lurabar spine, resulting in the sciatic-type pain you have in your leg or legs...stenosis, the disc that is bulging at L4-5 and possibly a spondylolisthesis caused by the pars defect at L5. You don't mention the latter, but it often comes as a result of the pars defect. Depending on how bad it is, it can cause instability in that lower segment of your spine, allowing one vertebra to slip over the top of the adjacent one. This too can result in a compressed nerve.
I hope you get a little relief from the injection and that you'll be able to see an orthopedic spine specialist soon.
I'm not sure why your doctor didn't tell you what he was doing, or what he discovered perhaps just by accident.
Is your pain usually on the right side? From your description, it sounRAB like you probably have a corabination of three things that are all causing the nerve or nerves to be compressed in your lower lurabar spine, resulting in the sciatic-type pain you have in your leg or legs...stenosis, the disc that is bulging at L4-5 and possibly a spondylolisthesis caused by the pars defect at L5. You don't mention the latter, but it often comes as a result of the pars defect. Depending on how bad it is, it can cause instability in that lower segment of your spine, allowing one vertebra to slip over the top of the adjacent one. This too can result in a compressed nerve.
I hope you get a little relief from the injection and that you'll be able to see an orthopedic spine specialist soon.
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maltluver
Guest
Potatobugs, it sounRAB like this doctor is not a spine specialist and that's what you need to see.....either an Orthopedic Spine Specialist or a Neurosurgeon who specializes in the spine. ONLY these kind of doctors are truly qualified to diagnose you properly. Their eyes sometimes pick up things on the MRI films that others miss, including the radiologist. I would not trust any diagnosis unless it comes from a doctor who does specialize in the spine and has done many, many, spinal surgeries.
While it is hard to wait when you are in pain, I think that being sure the right surgery is done is worth it. Once they open you up, you can't go back again and spinal surgery is not something to undergo lightly. In fact, if your MRI is not definitive, I think an Orthopedic Spine Specialist would send you for a ct scan with contrast to get a better picture of the nerves in the affected areas.
You are young, and that is an advantage in healing, but it will still take time....depending on what is done. Certainly, no less than several weeks and possibly months to heal properly.
I don't understand at all why the surgeon your dr. called was so insistent that you get more injections. Usually, the dr. would want to see you and evaluate your condition before recommending ANY course of treatment so it seems strange to me. If I were you, I would insist on seeing an Ortho Spine Specialist.....but you will, of course, make your own decision which is as it should be and I wish you the best of luck.
Please stay in touch and let us know what is going on and how you are.
Carol
While it is hard to wait when you are in pain, I think that being sure the right surgery is done is worth it. Once they open you up, you can't go back again and spinal surgery is not something to undergo lightly. In fact, if your MRI is not definitive, I think an Orthopedic Spine Specialist would send you for a ct scan with contrast to get a better picture of the nerves in the affected areas.
You are young, and that is an advantage in healing, but it will still take time....depending on what is done. Certainly, no less than several weeks and possibly months to heal properly.
I don't understand at all why the surgeon your dr. called was so insistent that you get more injections. Usually, the dr. would want to see you and evaluate your condition before recommending ANY course of treatment so it seems strange to me. If I were you, I would insist on seeing an Ortho Spine Specialist.....but you will, of course, make your own decision which is as it should be and I wish you the best of luck.
Please stay in touch and let us know what is going on and how you are.
Carol
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tetonteri66
Guest
I'm confused. I thought the doctor, the "she" you refer to is a neurosurgeon. Did I misunderstand? If so, why is she referring you to a "surgeon?" Please clarify.
Do you have flexion/extension X-rays?
Who are you speaking with tomorrow??
In any case, I hope the appointment goes well and you feel they are able to explain things to you to your satisfaction.
Do you have flexion/extension X-rays?
Who are you speaking with tomorrow??
In any case, I hope the appointment goes well and you feel they are able to explain things to you to your satisfaction.