Endless Exhaust Debate...

J

jurin

New member
I have been researching exhaust systems for my 848 and I've narrowed the choices to three:

Leo Vince Evo II Full System

Termignoni Full System

Arrow Thunder Full System

The Leo Vince and Arrow are seemingly less expensive but they don't include an ECU or air filter. They're not included because both are advertised as fully compatible with the base ECU. That got me thinking. Why are Arrow and Leo exempt from an ECU upgrade while Termignoni requires the upgrade to avoid running too lean?

It only makes sense that the Termis flow more air than the other two.

Am I off base here? I haven't seen an advertised tube diameter for Arrow or Leo Vince. Are they more narrow than the Termis?

-j
 
I have not seen detailed pictures of the non termi systems but I would guess they may have bungs for the lamda plug.
How you would get around the exhaust valve issue I don't know.
 
Here's another twist to make your head hurt. My full Termi system is running so rich that i needed to buy a PCIII to clean it up. After seeing the dyno graph from EDR performance I'm beginning to think that the stock ECU is fine with any pipe setup as long as you use the O2 sensor. Someone needs to try a full Termi system with the stock ECU and O2 sensor then do a few pulls on a dyno and post up the results.....any takers? If my pipe wasn't wrapped I'd do it myself.


Deviztate,

If i had it to do over again I'd go with the Akra full system or another that doesn't come with an ECU and is accordingly cheaper. I'd then swap it out and reconnect the O2 sensor then check it on a dyno. Worst case scenario it's running lean and you have to buy a Nemesis system or ECU/PCIII package which you would pay for anyway with the Termi system.
 
WTF?



Agreed. I didn't see any 02 sensor interaction in the Nemesis specs. Do you think it's designed to eliminate the sensor?



I imagine it will be EDR to the rescue once again... Eric, are you listening?

Is the O2 sensor located in the collector? I'm looking at Leo Vince photos to see if they're ported for such an addition.

-j
 
Arrow and Leo aren't exempt from an ECU upgrade they just know it will still run without one. I would be willing to bet that you throw a full Leo on one bike, test the AFR, take that same LEO system off and throw it on another and when you test it's AFR it will be different.

These systems were never intended to be perfect from the get go. Because the people who make them know each bike is unique as to how the AFR will be affected by adding their system.

Think about it this way. You call LEO and ask exactly this..."Will my bike run with your full system without a Race ECU?"...LEO responds..."Yes, it will run without a Race ECU."...Now ask them "Will my bike run at it's optimal AFR and reach it peak HP/Torque range with your full system without running a Race ECU?"...Do you really think LEO is going to answer that question with a resounding "YES"? I doubt it.

Oh and just for shits and giggles I just called LEO. Spoke with Cody and proposed these exact questions. He answered exactly as I thought. "It will run without one, but if you want the best peformance out of your machine GET IT TUNED!".

So there you have it. You don't need one, but you would WANT one.
 
I don't have any experience with the Nemesis but I've heard that they are almost endlessly adjustable so my guess is that they can be used as an open(no O2) or closed(with O2) system.
 
Totally agree. I guess what I'm getting at is the Termi system right out of the box seems to lean AFR more than the other two based on the fact that Termignoni recommends only running their system with the DP Race ECU for many reason but one specifically being to avoid lean/heat issues.

It seems to me that the Leo Vince and Arrow systems must flow substantially less air in order to keep the system rich enough for safe operation in spite of no O2 sensor and no ECU upgrade. But this is where I'm wondering how off base I am.

-j
 
Okay. There goes my O2 sensor. Don't Dynos have their own O2 sensor that gets slipped into the exhaust cans during tuning? I usually see something hangin' out during pull sessions...

-j
 
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