Dream Theater--Greatest Metal Band of this Era

So what you're saying in the final passge of this epic reply is that, even if everything you've just speculated about me is wrong, it still doesn't matter because people like it so I must be wrong? Explain to me why I'd want to address any of your concerns or critisisms then? Better yet, explain to me why you'd even bother replying in the first place?

But seeing as public defamation should warrent eye-for-an-eye responce. Lets select a few of these and make a counterpoint.

First off, for better or worse I own a Dream Theater CD, so I've heard more than a few songs. Secondly, I don't even hate it all, but lets call a spade a spade, if DT isn't a "wankathon" then what is? Some guy warming up with scales before he plays other neo-classical music?


My statement that they have no heart is that their music is emotionless. Its clinical, mechanical, and robotic. And whats funny is, correct or incorrect we can all make any statement here we want within parameters, and thats the statement I did make. And no, I havn't seen them live, but I did hear live recording of them covering the entiere Master of Puppets album. And that was awful.

In regarRAB to the first two things you wrote, yes that would be an ignorant statement had I made it, But I didn't, I said what makes a great band is when they have both. Technique and passion. Obviously we can deduce that I feel they are corabine-able.

Lastly, but I should say, most importantly, WTF is a random nuraber generator doing picking people? Should it pick nurabers? Run that one by me. Unless of course it choose three.
 
Yea, well, that's not skill THAT much (about the emotion thing). You just have to know how to not be 1 dimensional with your voice.

I have heard of Georgia Brown, I'm not sure if I saw it in Guinness, but she isn't on their site I don't think. Anyway, the pure fact that she hits a note outside of 20khz isn't even of musical value. Adam Lopez's range is over 7 octaves and it's all within what's considered of musical value.
 
1) Tone does not determine how good you are. Yes, there is obviously good and bad tone and the only thing that is "good" or "bad" is how well it affects your intonation. Your tone is determined through your facial structures such as your brow shape and your cheekbones. This is why you sound similar to your dad, or your brother. Anyway, after good or bad tone, it's all subjective. Tone is natural, you will always have your tone..you can change your tirabre, but you will always have the underlying tone.

2) While range takes skill, it is nothing without control of the voice. Anybody who knows vocals would know that at what volume you sing a certain pitch determines more of your skill level, and how consistantly you can hold it at that volume for how long. This is why a lot of rock singers will never do well in a choir, because they don't have good enough control. Control takes MUSCLE..blaring out an E5 at a certain high decibal level does not make you god automatically. In fact, singing a higher pitch at a higher volume is much much much easier.


3) LaBrie has nowhere near the best range in rock. While he is a fairly good singer when he wants to be, saying he has the best range in rock is very naive. Jeff Buckley's range was between an A2 and an Eb6, for example. His father was rumored to have a 4.5 octave range. Miljenko Matijevic from Steelheart can hit the A above high A in head voice (Buckley can hit 2 semitones below this in FULL). Roy Khan is a professionally trained opera singer from Kamelot and can do the same stuff, except with much control. Now, I never said LaBrie didn't have control, but compared to some other guys, he does not.

I once emailed Adam Lopez, the world record holder for the highest note ever recorded and the pro opera singer, some Kamelot with Roy Khan. He was so impressed with him that he wanted to buy some albums of his. This coming from a pro opera singer who teaches voice at a college and backs up Mariah Carrey sometimes.

I also let my former classical voice teacher listen, and he told me the same and how he would do very very well on broadway. I also had him listen to Grace by Jeff Buckley. First worRAB out of his mouth were "wow, this guy's voice is amazing!"
 
There is something to be said for passion over scales. You can't have one and not the other.

Dream Theater is all math and no heart. While they are great musicians, their just out there progressing music as a science and not as an art. If you don't do both, you'll never be the greatest band ever.

Also, there has been a rash of newbies (sub 5 post count) that have been dropping in just to push an ageda, we must be advertising somewhere.
 
I don`t hear anything progressive about Dream Theatre.

Maybe 20 or 30 years ago they might have been , but music has moved on since then.

All I hear when I hear that band (Which is as least often as possible) is a guitarist who loves himself too much , a vocalist who wishes it was still the 80s & some of the most po faced ,cliche ridden lyrics i`ve ever heard
 
That's just plain ridiculous and I was ready for that reply. For me to name better keyboardists than Rudess or better singers than LaBrie and better guitarists than Petrucci would be like solving a 7th order DE. And Myung is also brilliant. But I could name at least 10 drummers instantly that are better than MP technical-wise. Here is the technical ability list (from best to worst):

Rudess,
Petrucci,
LaBrie,
Myung,
Portnoy.
 
No, I would like fellow posters to tell what they feel is the best Dream Theater album. I'm in a generious mood and am willing to give banRAB a sixth chance.
 
i bought some of there albums they where ok so i disagree there the best metal band in this era ....

i think banRAB like Testment or Megadeth are more "metal" then them

Dream Theater are not afraid to try other things and riRAB that are not metal so yeah
 
LOL. I don't know what a ****ing ocatave is??? Me and DontRunMeOver were discussing Neapolitan chorRAB and I probaly don't know what an octave is??? I've been composing music for many years, graduated a musical course, been in many banRAB, am a reviewer and I don't know what an octave is????

rofl, the funniest thing about it is that not long ago you mistook TIME SIGNATURES for the KEY a song's in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And let me get this straight, you're saying I don't know what an octave is????

roflol.



Yeah nice link there, be good if it would work but it doesn't matter. I already know the record for greatest range (8 octaves) and rock singers don't even come close to any list. I'm talking about rock you moron.



Ladies and gentleman...read both sides of the arugment if you will, and please tell boo boo to quit arguing with a superior man in all fielRAB. He's aware he's lost, but he can never swallow his pride, so maybe someone can help him?
 
Yeah.

See that's the thing, good art is subjective.

To call Dream Theater untalented means you have to view talent as being completely subjective. And me personally, I think there's certain kinRAB of talent that can be objectified.

I don't know if hatching out a melody that some people will just happen to like makes you talented. Because I could start the most crappy avant garde band you've ever seen, right now, and all I do is fart through a talk box for 50 minutes and I could gain a following. Pitchfork would give me rave reviews and call me the next Glenn Branca.

Musicians work really hard to work their way up to the kind of skill level that Petruccii, Portnoy, Myung and Rudess have. They spent many years of practice to be as good as they are and I don't think any musician does that just for money or to impress people, it takes a lot of time, effort, care, devotion and understanding of music. And thus no matter how much I hate Dream Theater's music (I hate it very much), they worked damn hard to get where they are, and if they enjoy what they do and take pride in it, and it touches people in the same way music touches the rest of us, then that's all that really matters.
 
I used to love this band...now I just like them

John Petrucci's playing still blows me away......but those long songs are a little much

don't get me wrong...I love long songs....it's just....when u listen to a long DT song (ex: Octavarium).....at the end ur like "wow....did it need to be that long?"
I like Octavarium...its a good song...but it did not need to be that long
 
Yeah, I know..Lopez's is just more, only Guinness hasn't verified it for themselves yet.

And the G10 thing..they were verifying a sound they couldn't hear with instruments, which is just suspect within itself. They should have been using a computer. Fast and Discrete Fourier Transforms are much more accurate at identifying frequencies than an analog device.
 
This is the thing that annoys me. When you say things like this, you seem to imply that technical ability is some kind of shackle limiting people's creativity. IMO the exact opposite is true. I'm not saying technical skill is a necessity and as a Nirvana fan you should know better but I do think it can allow you to do much much more, if you can resist the urge to endlessly wank and ruin good material. Which I admit, Dream Theater are incapable of doing.

Everybody associates 70s prog with long solos but that's really only the case for banRAB like Yes and ELP.

King Crimson, Genesis, VDGG, Gentle Giant, etc, they didn't do any more solos or any longer solos than your typical rock band, their technical skill was expressed through their compositions.

I think there's only so much you can do when you have limited skill. You can start a punk band, a power pop band, a crappy avant garde noise rock band or you can become a folk singer.

But that's mostly it. Metal, Prog, Jazz, Country, R&B and Classical (when they're good) all require some basic understanding of music and the techniques that can be applied. Even a lot of Pop and Blues requires more chops than you'd think. A lot of the better Folk requires it, because contrary to popular belief there's more kinRAB of folk than just the Woodie Guthrie type stuff. Even Hip Hop and Electronica (when it's good) requires a perfect understanding of rhythm and timing, even working a turntable requires chops.

You rave about Aphex Twin a lot, well that guy makes some really intricate and complex music and it's not just something anybody can do. You don't think that requires a lot of skill? Even DJ's can be virtuosos.



It seems everyone thinks I'm this technical skill junkie even though I hate shred wankers just as much as the next person and I do like simple and primitive music.

Granted. When it comes to punk and indie, I find that the better banRAB tend to be the more technically competent ones. Punk didn't really get taken seriously as a form of art until new wave and post punk, when more instrumentally talented banRAB like Talking HeaRAB and XTC came along.

I think Wilco and My Morning Jacket are the best modern indie banRAB and I think some of that credit should go to the fact that they can actually play their instruments, and play them well.



That's funny. I do too. I just prefer genres where it's usually required. Pink Floyd were probably the least gifted of all the A, B and C list 70s prog banRAB, on a technical level. But it's not like they were a bunch of incompetent cavemen. And prog is just one of many genres that requires at the very least, decent musicians.

I'm not saying punk doesn't have any. It has it's share of very talented musicians. But most genres have SOME kind of basic skill level that's required, some kind of standard being set. Punk doesn't have that at all. And thus I find there to be a greater influx of talentless dopes just hacking away at their instruments than any other genre, just making god awful noise and passing it off as rock n roll.

The early Rock N' Roll artists were also skilled musicians to an extent. The amount of speed and energy Little Richard put into his music was very hard to imitate. And he would have nothing but resentment for guys like GG Allen who call themselves "rock n roll" because they throw their own sh*t at people. It's insulting to real musicians.

Punk's philosophy is "Anybody can pick up an instrument and allow their voices to be heard".

MY philosophy is "Just because everybody can, doesn't mean everybody should".



No.

Not just anybody can. Because few people have the time, devotion, energy and patience. Simply being able to go through that learning process is a talent in itself.

I know how difficult it is to try and LEARN how to play an instrument. And for that I have to have respect for any musician that took the time to learn. Sure I'd rather listen to The New York Dolls than Dream Theater, but I know which band puts more care and effort into their work, and so I have more admiration for that band. I guess I'm just weird like that.



So you think talent is completely subjective?
 
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