The filler of the Saiyan arc doesn't factor in much during the battle with the Saiyans, though. It's never referenced during the battle and Gohan spenRAB half of the fight cowering in fear as if he's never even experienced danger (which...doesn't make much sense considering Piccolo trained him...and he's the Great Demon King!). The episodes individually are relatively good, but they really don't count for much salt.
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Does Dragonball Kai make going back to DBZ difficult?
- Thread starter nhlstar95
- Start date
Powder Snow
New member
While i think it's interesting to make a series that's more in line with the manga, like i've said before, not all of the filler is a bad idea. While very few of us likes the season sets, i think a good idea would have been to think of the series in that way. Maybe you don't need 35 episodes for the saiyan saga, but cutting it down to 15 or 16 just seems a little much. Maybe just 4 or 5 more episodes would have been nice. Cutting out superfluous material like Gohan's second transformation, Princess Snake, and some of the other things that hit the same note would've been good. Then there are the easy things to cut like the fake namek stuff. However, material like the kiRAB on the spaceship was an okay bit. It's interesting to hear about a villain and build him up before ever seeing him.
Even though Gohan does spend a lot of the fight with nappa cowering in fear, it's still a huge jump. It doesn't matter that the filler doesn't have a giant impact but i think things like Gohan longing for home and then when he gets home he realizes what he's fighting for is such a great character beat and adRAB so much to his character.
While Piccolo would be a taskmaster during training, i think Gohan is pretty confident that as hard as he is Piccolo's not going to kill him. Being in a battle for your life with giant stakes like the fate of the world is completely different. I'm not saying that it's absent in the manga or Kai, but i just don't think the payoff is as big.
Even though Gohan does spend a lot of the fight with nappa cowering in fear, it's still a huge jump. It doesn't matter that the filler doesn't have a giant impact but i think things like Gohan longing for home and then when he gets home he realizes what he's fighting for is such a great character beat and adRAB so much to his character.
While Piccolo would be a taskmaster during training, i think Gohan is pretty confident that as hard as he is Piccolo's not going to kill him. Being in a battle for your life with giant stakes like the fate of the world is completely different. I'm not saying that it's absent in the manga or Kai, but i just don't think the payoff is as big.
lost and alone
New member
Twenty episodes!! (85-105)
The Boo isn't ninety-six episodes, really. Those first five that make up the Afterlife Tournament take place during the Cell era. The actual Boo stuff itself is continually changing as Toriyama wrote it on the fly (like he did the Artificial Humans stuff). The last couple of episodes don't have much of anything to do with Boo, either.
The Boo isn't ninety-six episodes, really. Those first five that make up the Afterlife Tournament take place during the Cell era. The actual Boo stuff itself is continually changing as Toriyama wrote it on the fly (like he did the Artificial Humans stuff). The last couple of episodes don't have much of anything to do with Boo, either.
Dragon Ball Kai is a celebration of Dragon Ball Z being twenty years old this year. That's one of the big reasons it was produced. Dragon Ball Z is still availabl on single disc in Japan if anyone wants to pick it up instead.
It helps that the pacing of Dragon Ball Kai is so quick. The original comic was quick and being produced to better follow it than Dragon Ball Z did...it's doing it's job. Sixty-five episodes trimmed down to thirty is pretty awesome, and assuming Dragon Ball Kai goes over fifty episodes (the 4th Blu-Ray box contains episodes 40-50 and is set to be released June 25, 2010) than we might just get the Artificial Humans and Majin Boo arcs spread across fifty more episodes.
It helps that the pacing of Dragon Ball Kai is so quick. The original comic was quick and being produced to better follow it than Dragon Ball Z did...it's doing it's job. Sixty-five episodes trimmed down to thirty is pretty awesome, and assuming Dragon Ball Kai goes over fifty episodes (the 4th Blu-Ray box contains episodes 40-50 and is set to be released June 25, 2010) than we might just get the Artificial Humans and Majin Boo arcs spread across fifty more episodes.
you don't have to explain it to me. I understand the reasons for all of this.
I'm just saying that there's a middle ground. The manga was written and drawn by 1 guy. Okay, he had helpers, but for the most part it was 1 guy, so the comic was naturally going to contain a lot less material than a tv show with a large staff to carry the load.
While not everything is one story, the filler can add a lot of great character beats that can pay off emotionally during the fights.
I think DB and DBZ ran ran for nearly 10 years uninterupted. Hence why there's a lot of extraneous material. Personally i think that they should've taken short breaks between episodes, like 2 months after 20 or so episodes. That way you don't burn out and don't have to keep filling time with material just so you don't get ahead of the original material. 20 episodes or so for the "seasons" would run to around 180 episodes. Each of the season sets are 25 episodes or over. On the low end they could cut 3 or 4 episodes, and on the high end they could cut 14 or 15 episodes worth of material. Allows for the pacing to improve but allows for moments to breathe. I haven't seen Kai at all, but i have read the manga and it misses a lot of things that add a lot while not neccessary to get to the big fight. Not having Chi-chi's reaction would seem like a big mistake. By the same token, the scenes where Chichi is preparing to go to Namek is easily cut out.
I'm just saying that there's a middle ground. The manga was written and drawn by 1 guy. Okay, he had helpers, but for the most part it was 1 guy, so the comic was naturally going to contain a lot less material than a tv show with a large staff to carry the load.
While not everything is one story, the filler can add a lot of great character beats that can pay off emotionally during the fights.
I think DB and DBZ ran ran for nearly 10 years uninterupted. Hence why there's a lot of extraneous material. Personally i think that they should've taken short breaks between episodes, like 2 months after 20 or so episodes. That way you don't burn out and don't have to keep filling time with material just so you don't get ahead of the original material. 20 episodes or so for the "seasons" would run to around 180 episodes. Each of the season sets are 25 episodes or over. On the low end they could cut 3 or 4 episodes, and on the high end they could cut 14 or 15 episodes worth of material. Allows for the pacing to improve but allows for moments to breathe. I haven't seen Kai at all, but i have read the manga and it misses a lot of things that add a lot while not neccessary to get to the big fight. Not having Chi-chi's reaction would seem like a big mistake. By the same token, the scenes where Chichi is preparing to go to Namek is easily cut out.
SNOOPY*MKP
New member
All of that stuff is available in Dragon Ball Z if you still want to see it. A lot of the filler in Dragon Ball Z breaks up the flow of the plot and action. Watching Dragon Ball Kai's work on the Namek arc has been a goRABend (aside from the comic...which I own all of the Saiyan and Namek stuff of...it's quite a smooth read).
Fun fact: Dragon Ball Z added so much filler material it literally is the biggest perpetuation of Chichi's over-protective, witchy personality everybody associates with her.
Fun fact: Dragon Ball Z added so much filler material it literally is the biggest perpetuation of Chichi's over-protective, witchy personality everybody associates with her.
I understand all of that. I do think they over do it with showing chichi's overprotectiveness, but there are a couple scenes that are good and don't detract from flow of the narrative.
Though i agree that MOST of the stuff that cuts back to Earth is superfluous. It made sense in the Saiyan saga given that Gohan's sheltered, so having her son being kidnapped it feels neccessary to see that reaction.
The reaction wasn't neccessary in the Freeza saga as it came from that whole "i can sense it" type deal.
I haven't seen Kai and won't unless it's released here, but i'm interested to see how they deal with the material, especially namek. At least on Earth you have a variety of backgrounRAB, but just the fact that namek doesn't have night and the locations all look similar it blenRAB together.
How do Kai and the manga deal with Goku's training while on the spaceship? Specifically the 100x gravity. While it's not neccessary, i do like it and how it shows Goku's never give up attitude.
Though i agree that MOST of the stuff that cuts back to Earth is superfluous. It made sense in the Saiyan saga given that Gohan's sheltered, so having her son being kidnapped it feels neccessary to see that reaction.
The reaction wasn't neccessary in the Freeza saga as it came from that whole "i can sense it" type deal.
I haven't seen Kai and won't unless it's released here, but i'm interested to see how they deal with the material, especially namek. At least on Earth you have a variety of backgrounRAB, but just the fact that namek doesn't have night and the locations all look similar it blenRAB together.
How do Kai and the manga deal with Goku's training while on the spaceship? Specifically the 100x gravity. While it's not neccessary, i do like it and how it shows Goku's never give up attitude.
Zombie King
New member
A lot of stuff happens in those twenty episodes. The only insanely slow part of the fight is the Genki-dama portion.
~â?¥LadyLindaâ?¥~
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In the comic you get about a page or two of him beating the crap out of himself and some narration about how each time Son recovers from near death he grows in strength. Dragon Ball Kai pretty much did the same, drastically cutting all of the filler from Dragon Ball Z.
Well...you do see Bulma, but the guys up at Kai
Well...you do see Bulma, but the guys up at Kai
I like the Genki Dama portion. It's one of the few parts that doesn't feel too slow or too fast. Goku's trying his best to get the ball formed while Vegeta (who knows he can't win) is trying his hardest to keep the focus off of Goku. Plus, i really like that Mr. Satan of all people is the one that saves the day by getting the people that don't know Goku to contribute. Even then there's the great material where Goku just doesn't have enough energy and Satan doesn't want to hurt the people that believe in them by sapping what strength they have left. The stuff with Super Buu and Gotenks and the constant waiting around takes forever. There's some good material, but it just feels like the show is dragging it's feet.
In the comic you get about a page or two of him beating the crap out of himself and some narration about how each time Son recovers from near death he grows in strength. Dragon Ball Kai pretty much did the same, drastically cutting all of the filler from Dragon Ball Z.
they don't have to have big scenes but i like the mini reminders of Goku being on the way. It's like when the Saiyans are on their way and at the end of nearly every episode there was a reminder of the threat looming. Having 1 blurb feels like an afterthought.
In the comic you get about a page or two of him beating the crap out of himself and some narration about how each time Son recovers from near death he grows in strength. Dragon Ball Kai pretty much did the same, drastically cutting all of the filler from Dragon Ball Z.
they don't have to have big scenes but i like the mini reminders of Goku being on the way. It's like when the Saiyans are on their way and at the end of nearly every episode there was a reminder of the threat looming. Having 1 blurb feels like an afterthought.
stoiccrying
New member
A good chunk of the material is simply the stuff on Earth with Chichi at Capsule Corp. Easily gotten rid of.
stoiccrying
New member
It's not neccessarily the fight that's the problem, just that they say that it's taking place over 5 minutes.
Oh yeah, get rid of clip shows. That's an easy way to cut material.
Oh yeah, get rid of clip shows. That's an easy way to cut material.
LarrySmile
New member
Not really. Those last five minutes are pretty swift in the comic...
...for five minutes in a Sh
...for five minutes in a Sh
shadow.wolf76
New member
I actually love the Garlic Jr. Arc. Kinda. I mean, objectively, it's pretty terrible, but I feel like there should be SOMETHING between Namek and the AndroiRAB. It's like... Freeza's dead! And then, wait, it's been TWO EPISODES, and now he's back! Goku's been gone since the planet exploded? Whatever, he's totally back now.
But with Garlic Jr. there's a good breather in-between. You wonder - hey, what IS Goku doing out there? Why isn't he back yet? When you see Freeza return, you think to yourself - wait a minute, he's dead! We're past that arc! Why is he back!?
It just feels like there should be something in that gap. I mean, it sucks that we got GARLIC JUNIOR in there, but it's better than nothing, I think.
But with Garlic Jr. there's a good breather in-between. You wonder - hey, what IS Goku doing out there? Why isn't he back yet? When you see Freeza return, you think to yourself - wait a minute, he's dead! We're past that arc! Why is he back!?
It just feels like there should be something in that gap. I mean, it sucks that we got GARLIC JUNIOR in there, but it's better than nothing, I think.
Watch whichever you want, really. Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Kai are really just animated adaptions of Dragon Ball volumes 17-42. The former is older, contains the music that globally fans have known for 20 years, and is a direct continuation of the Dragon Ball anime adaption while the latter is a celebratory 'remake' that is recut, rerecorded, and rescored for modern audiences to enjoy. Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball Kai are different visions from two different production teams using the same animation materials (because Toei's cheap ass won't give us more animation like the Dragon Soul opening).
The comic is still the universal reference, so if you can't choose an anime...chose the original comic!!
The comic is still the universal reference, so if you can't choose an anime...chose the original comic!!
Heh, in the comic it is within the very same fourteen page chapter that Kuririn and frienRAB return to life and then Freeza shows up on Earth.
Personally, it didn't matter to Toriyama at the time...so I don't really think it matters at all. Two years (well, twenty months) pass between the two Freeza fights (not that the Viz translation makes that clear whatsoever), but the pacing settles down once all the exposition clears.
Personally, it didn't matter to Toriyama at the time...so I don't really think it matters at all. Two years (well, twenty months) pass between the two Freeza fights (not that the Viz translation makes that clear whatsoever), but the pacing settles down once all the exposition clears.