Discipline vs. Punishment?

Charisa

New member
Let's start a discussion to see if you agree or disagree. No disrespectful comments, please. They will be reported.

The scenario: Mommy and Little Johnny are shopping at the grocery store.

Little Johnny is walking down an aisle with mommy, absent-mindedly flailing his arms everywhere and touching shelves because he's bored. You've told him to keep his hands to himself. His arms hit a row of food which falls to the floor and you're obviously mad. This is NOT the time to punish your child. This requires DISCIPLINE (which requires a learning experience). You tell Johnny that he was not supposed to be touching shelves - you tell him it was an accident but he needs to pick up the food he knocked down. He learns the consequences of his actions without being punished. He learns responsibility, and you've given him a clear reason as to why you've asked him to keep his hands to himself. You have disciplined your child.

In another case, Little Johnny is walking down an aisle with Mommy and sees a toy he wants. Mommy tells Johnny that she can only afford groceries today, but he might get a toy next time. Of course this makes Johnny man, who immediately starts screaming and throwing a tantrum. He is on the floor crying and kicking around. You need to get control of the situation. You've already explained why he can't have the toy, so now it is time to punish your misbehaving child. You can pop his hand or spank his butt, put him in the buggy and tell him he cannot walk the aisles like a big boy today because he threw a baby tantrum, and tell him he will not be getting a toy for your next shopping trip unless he can calm down and act like a big boy. He will either continue to whine or be silent. You have punished your child.

The difference between the two: Discipline is reserved for children making mistakes. We should never punish a child for a mistake he made - he is, after all, just a child. In discipline, you teach a lesson and enforce your rule. Punishment, however, is reserved for the child who is deliberately acting up because he did not get his way. I believe an affective punishment is spanking. It is not child abuse and does not emotionally harm the child (I was spanked occasionally as a child). If you're at home and able to prolong a punishment, spanking should be substituted for no toys, no TV, no dessert, etc. I use spanking and "hand popping" in public when I'm unable to use the child's home comforts as negotiation tools.

Discuss whether you agree or disagree with spanking, punishment vs. discipline, or anything else.
I think I'm more of a hand popping person than a spanking person, but I don't rule it out. Why do you disagree with spanking or why do you think you won't use it on your children? Please explain why it's wrong or right - I'm curious as to why you think that.
 
Hitting the hands actually has more severe consequences as it limits their wanting to explore the world by their hands. Their hands are also far more sensitive than their butt is quite honestly. They're more easily damaged, and it's far more mentally abusive than a swat to the butt.

I think it's wrong. Discipline means to teach a child to behave and how to behave. Discipline should ALWAYS be part of the situation. You should ALWAYS be trying to teach while changing their behavior.

Situation 1: He knocks the food over. If I've told him to stop touching everything, then picking up the food is not enough of a punishment (and yes, it IS a punishment. It's a natural consequences punishment. If it wasn't a punishment then I wouldn't have him pick it up at all.) Picking up the food only is reserved for true accidents, not careless behavior. The difference? When I told my child to keep their hands to themselves then they should have stopped. Just because a natural consequence happened that supports my warning that doesn't mean if the natural consequence hadn't happened I should have continued to let them be careless. I mean, it's like the parent who tells their child to stop running in the store, but doesn't correct them when they DO run in the store, but waits for that natural consequence. You teach your child not to listen to you but to demand a real reason. If I tell you to stop touching that should be enough. He would have to pick up the food in your example, and he'd have to hold my hand or ride in the cart because he wasn't listening.

The second example sounds like you've never dealt with that situation before. Believe me, he's not going to whine or be silent, he's going to go into a complete melt-down because not only were his concerns and feelings completely dismissed by you, but you punished him for something he didn't understand (money and buying concepts), and then said he could get a toy the next trip (what if you said that LAST time? You're not consistent.)

What works in the second situation? It's dependent on the age. Usually with my kids I can recognize when a situation is getting out of hand. I also know that if I say no to a toy, that sometimes what works is to allow my daughter to hold it and then put it back herself a few minutes later, reminding her that she has toys at home. Other times what works is to get it out of sight and pull a toy out of my pocket (I carry little toys for that reason.) Sometimes a snack is enough to get it out of mind. If a meltdown happens, then picking them up so that they are closer to my head/ears and telling them that I know it's hard to not always get what we want, that I know they're mad, but they need to calm down or we'll have to leave the store. If they show ANY effort to calm down, then I take them to a quieter area and we work on it. If they don't show any signs, then walking out of the store and into the fresh air can sometimes distract and help them calm down so I can point out the consequences of not getting our shopping done NOW and having to leave NOW (ie, they won't get to ride the penny horse, get the little 50cent snack I was letting them pick out, etc.) I have NEVER had to leave completely, usually my daughter calms down at that point and we get the shopping done. With my nephew, I did have to leave and then I had to ask my mom to come shopping with us a couple of times and sit in the car reading a book while he sat bored, and I'd do that with my kids either leaving them home with my husband bored while I got shopping done, or else with my mom or someone else. And if their sibling came, then their sibling would get to choose a snack or something because their sibling behaved.

Basically, if you throw a fit with me I'm not going to bargain that 'next time you'll get a toy', I'm not going to let them make a spectacle of either of us, and they're going to lose out on something they wanted because of their behavior, as well as missing out next time on the ability to get that something they wanted. I know the stores that have cookies for children, and believe me my kids WANT to go to the store with me even though not every time they get a cookie just for that chance. I also know which stores have penny-horse rides, and if they make me stop too many times we just don't have the time to ride a penny horse, and next time they behave better for that ride. The punishments are the removal of those opportunities, and that works very well.
 
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