Digimon Adventure 02 on CR and Funi Talkback (spoilers)

What can I say? I have a pretty good memory for these kinRAB of things. That can be a good and a bad thing all at once.



I understand that. At least the way it happened in the dub made somewhat more sense with Davis saying that he was Veemon's friend. That had more of a connection to frienRABhip than just saying how pathetic he was.



That's true. I wasn't thinking about that kind of connection with the dark ocean. I was thinking more about how bothing the D-Reaper and Dagomon had a really creepy connection to a young girl.



I'm not sure how I felt about the normal evolution episodes since I thought that it was cool how the new Digimon could finally have their own normal evolutions. I think 02 just has a really poor start with the Digimon Kaiser arc that really doesn't do anything interesting until the last few episodes. I personally enjoyed the whole Agumon capture thing, but that could have been done in two episodes and still have worked out well.

At least the later part of the series have better qualities like BlackWarGreymon, the World Tour and pretty much everything up until the last episode. I'll have to rewatch it when the time comes and see if I still enjoy the epilogue or not. Even with the ending, I think 02 had a much better second half than Frontier. As we agreed on before, ending Frontier with just Cherubimon as the final boss would have been a much better move for the writers to make.



I can understand why that would take away some of the specialness of the Chosen Children feel, but I also don't see that as the case. I agree with Undrave on how it's just not as rare as it once was. Just because they all have their own Digimon doesn't mean that they'll have a lot of action like the main kiRAB in both 01 and 02. To me, it feels more like how the kiRAB in the different countries are there as emotional backup since it was their energy that helped the 02 team win the final battle. That doesn't really translate into the same level of being a chosen child as it does with the kiRAB from 01 and 02.

After thinking about it, I definitely think that 01 has better qualities than 02. I just think that the quality of the villains in 01 kind of dropped after Myotismon mainly because he was the first villain that was a huge threat to both worlRAB. It would be cool if they uploaded 01 after they finish 02, even though it would be kind of weird to go from the sequel to the original series.
 
Well, what I'm saying is that I would have shown Ken reflecting more, pondering the reasoning behind Wormmon and the Chosen's opposition to his actions, and would soon gradually begin to question what he's doing and the reality of it; it wouldn't be so abrupt like the series did.

And where ever did I say that I wouldn't reveal what made Ken what he is? That certainly would have been revealed, but I'd excise Oikawa and Vamdemon, and the whole "Dark SeeRAB" bit. It makes perfect sense that Ken would find the Digital World and, really stressed out by the expectations Osamu's death left his parents with for him, have difficulty discerning between what's "real" and what isn't. He would certainly be driven insane by the power; that's a perfectly understandable thing. All the stress he's under would understandably distort his perspective; the Dark SeeRAB was completely unnecessary, as if human nature wouldn't have been enough.

And let's face it, Romi Pak is dead creepy in the Japanese.
 
The Dark spore was the thing that gave him inteligence, plus the manipulation in Owikawa's letter, and it's visit to the Dark Ocean. One thing I noticed throughout all digimon seasons(at least 1-4) is the subject of Manipulation. Matt was manipulated into fighting Tai, Ken into becoming the Digimon empereor, Jeri into beleiving she was worthless and abandoning her true self, Impmon into a certain part was manipulated, etc.

and also remenber these are children.. not adults, so it's very easy to manipulate.
 
I understand and respect your opinion, but I also disagree. At least in a sense. The Kaiser arc didn't really have too many good episodes about it and I think it is the weakest arc in this series. Other than the Agumon episodes, the Dark Ocean episode and the last few episodes of this arc, I thought that most of the episodes were mainly destroying the Dark Towers, freeing controlled Digimon and/or getting a new Digimental. They could have done some more with this arc, especially with more of a build-up to Ken realizing his horrible mistake before the last episode of the Kaiser arc, but they unfortunately didn't. I honestly thought that the other arcs in the rest of 02 were better, or had better development, than this arc, but that's just me.



That is a good point how they were hiding their Digimon from Taichi's mom. The parents do know about Digimon from the events of the 01 series, but maybe they didn't want to let her know that the Digimon and Digital World stuff was happening again.

Yep, this was the first time that the 02 Digimon evolved to their Child forms in the real world. I think it only happened once more just before the World Tour started.
 
Oh you did not just say that about my lady...

(is assaulted by merabers of the Kugimiya love-love fanclub) I meant my other lady guys! My other lady.
 
That's true. In all of the other Jogress forms, you can see obvious traits from both of the two Digimon. With Shakkoumon though, we only get a huge odd looking teapot Digimon. I actually remeraber when he made his first appearance that I thought that it looked incredibly weird and wondering how Anaklomon and Angemon corabined to make something like that.



That's a good point. While it was an Ultimate form, Ookuwamon did really defeat nearly all of the Champion forms with just one hit I think. That seems a bit too easy, but they obviously wanted to cause something that would allow Paildramon to be formed.



That is pretty funny actually. I would have thought that they would have added Hikari after the eighth Child arc, considering how important that was to the entire plot for the series.

I just finished episode 26 and it was really great. I did like seeing how Paildramon was impressed by his own new strength and how he was really able to fight against Ookuwamon. Daisuke obvioulsy love seeing their Digimon becoming one. Miyako: "They seem to be a perfect pair." Yeah, I can totally see shippers taking apart a line like that completely.

I thought that it was interesting how they thought that the danger was over and then they were still in danger a second later. Iori definitely has issues and that eventually goes away, I think. And hooray for references to past episodes like the Dark Ocean. Too bad that they couldn't do anything about the machine at first, but it was a good thing that Paildramon destroyed it and then blew up the whole base. I guess that Ken does have his Crest of Kindness since I remeraber that he was holding it in a future episode.

Again, Daisuke seemed to totally love how their Digimon became one Ultimate level Digimon. The way that he described his feelings was really cute and all but after feeling a person's heart and thoughts, I wouldn't use the term buddies after that either. At least both of their Digimon liked the experience and Ken did too, but he can't express or come to terms with his feelings yet.

And then we had that bit of history with the first Jogress evolution and what happened to the original crests. I was wondering what the heck Jogress meant and that was a good explantaion. It was really cute to see the original Digimon and Chosen Children from the first series together again. I have to admit that Teno-san was just adorable to hear and that was a cute and funny way to end the episode on.

Overall, it was a really nice episode. By the way, I now totally love the new ending theme with its extremely catchy beat. I liked seeing Paildramon in action and seeing Daisuke reach out to Ken with his friendliness. I'll be looking foreword to watching the next episode tomorrow.
 
Episode 18 was released, and finally I can talk back. This finally begins the last leg of the Kasar arc, this was a long arc. The only arc that is as long in the Adventures universe is the Vamdemon arc, and the Vamdemon arc is way better. But that is another story.

The thing I didn't care for at this points, is the attempted comedy relief with Jun. I thought what Yamato did in this episode to that girl (say what you want about her, but still) was really mean. I expect better from a Chosen. What were the writers thinking with that? They made one of our heros look like a jerk.
 
If you ask me it would have made far less sense if the Japanese kiRAB were the only chosen children in the world. I mean...the rest of the world could easily be threatened just as much as Japan. Digigates can open anywhere after all, hence the World tour. Sure you only needed the kiRAB with crests to take care of the really big bad threat, but the others guys could pick up any internationnal slack if needed.

Plus I think it would help to know you're not the only ones out there having to deal with all that craziness and having to hide your partner and stuff.

Its like going online and realizing you're not the only teenage/young adult who actual enjoys watching Digimon makes you feel better about yourself no?
 
I think it had more to do with how Toei likes every Patamon evolution to be a level higher in strength than it really is. Angemon could go head-to-head with the Perfect/Ultimate forms, HolyAngemon could do damage to Ultimate/Mega forms, etc. That's why Takeru and Patamon are usually the last ones to get an evolution; theirs normally turn out being super powerful, with the exception of Pegusmon, I guess.

I'm at episode 33 so far. I'm really loving the series in Japanese.
 
One episode left and I'm all caught up with the releases. I seem to recall the Giga House episode being a two parter...but my memory of how many episodes stuff took in 02 has proven to be...spotty

I really hope they put up another Digimon season... like next fall or something. I'd be estactic!
 
Which was completely unnecessary. Ken was intelligent, and under a lot of stress, to begin with. It makes perfect sense that he would find the Digital World and, believing it to be a game, begin to use it as a way to express himself - however, what the series then poorly explained was the issue of why he never stopped to consider

1) Is this really a game? and
2) Maybe what I'm doing is wrong

....which, if he truly is a kind, gentle being, he would think of A LOT. The latter, if he truly is kind, he would think of especially, game or not.

Oikawa was completely unnecessary; Ken didn't need to be manipulated. AT ALL. Human nature alone, along with the expectations his parents had for him after Osamu's death, would easily have been enough to drive him down that path; the Dark SeeRAB were unnecessary.
 
Yeah, well, for me, it was funner when the Chosen Children were the only ones, y'know? Bringing in international DD's, really, killed off the charm, IMHO.

Now let's not have that debate go any further.
 
Nah don't worry its all good.

You have to realize that even with all those DRAB there's still only 9 crests (counting the crest of Kindness), 8 Digimentals and 6 D3s.

Furthermore the International DRAB, while using the same Digivice as the previous generation, were not involved in the last adventure. So you could say the Digidestined we follow as a special MORE chosen group of Chosen.

Heck you could even say that 'kid with a Digimon partner' isn't the same as a 'Chosen Children'.

Personally I find that it helps the scope of the story and that, in the same spot as the writers, I probably would have taken that step.

Off course there's a lot of things I would have done differently with 02 ( relating to Iori and Miyako's digimentals choices for exemple) but I can't disagree with the International DD part.
 
I just finished watching episode 28 and I thought that it was really enjoyable. It seems like the children are taking action with destroying the Dark Tower. I got a nice little laugh when Hikari started to think of the different corabinations with X-Veemon and their other Digimon. Iori really doesn't seem to the idea of Jogress Evolution, despite the strength it gives them for battle. I don't like fighting either and I would consider myself a pretty passive person in general, but even I think his idea of not having all of their Digimon Jogress Digivolve wasn't really a good one. Obviously, it happens for him too in the future, but I wanted to point that out.

I felt bad for Ken since he was obviously too worried and nervous to try Jogress Digivolve with Daisuke. I thought that it was sweet how he was really worried for Wormmon. Of course, the mysterious woman lurges them into a trap in the Giga House. I had forgotten how huge that house was when I first watched the episode in the dub. Of course, there's a huge nuraber of Digimon attacking them.

I forgot that this was one of the few times Submarimon actually was useful and it was nice that Iori helped saved Ken. Too bad that he totally made himself look like a jerk for saying it was only to repay a debt that he owned to Ken. I know that Ken did some terrible things before, but I think that Iori really neeRAB to learn how to forgive and forget. At least Ken was still nice about it and helped Iori out again.

I also forgot that Digmon was technically an insect-type Digimon. Probably wasn't a good idea for Iori to choose Armor Evolution. Takeru, Hikari and Miyako weren't have better luck either with constantly being chased around. I have to admit that they did walk right into this trap, but I guess that they thought that they had no choice here.

Overall, it was a pretty good episode. It leaRAB into a really nice cliffhanger, but the promo for the next episode says quite a bit on what will happen next. I'm really looking foreword to the next bach of episodes this week. Since I'll be back at school, it will be a bit harder for me to watch the episodes all in one weekend, but I'm still planning on seeing the rest of the series
 
I think it actually makes more sense that Ken didn't stop to question what he was doing BECAUSE he was being manipulated.

Personally the whole 'human nature alone' angle would have worked FAR better for Oikawa. Just cut out the needless ressurection of VamDemon and just replace the final battle with some sort of freaky mutated Oikawa that was created in the Wish world.

Without Ken turning good we wouldn't have Jogress Digivolution and without the dark spore Ken would have been WAY too angsty. He's already dancing at the edge of wangst so I'm happy with what we got.
 
Oh, come on. Ken was angsty and stressed enough that he didn't need to be manipulated, and that was just a poorly written explanation.

If I could re-write Zero Two, I would have excised Oikawa and Vamdemon, AND the Dark SeeRAB. The series would have worked far better without all three.

And "Ken would have been too angsty?" Come on, he freakin MADE this series. This COULD have been the best Digimon series ever, unique in that the main villain was a HUMAN as opposed to a Digimon, but NOOO. The story had to give the vibe "all humans are innately good and not responsible for the bad things they do, it's all manipulation."
 
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