Crispin Freeman on Mature Animated Storytelling...

H

halshy2

New member
This man is awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eors--FT8sY

And he's 100% right.

I can think of a couple of people here who are going to disagree with him, but he's right, they're wrong. Children shouldn't be shielded from the world and responsible storytelling in animation could actually help give them the tools to deal with the big, scary real world.
 
That's nice and all but as long as parents and advertisers have their say things aren't going to change.

He has interesting points but still...I dunno...this sort of thing isn't worth complaining about because this is how things have been for a long time and it's not going to change. He's just spouting the same "cartoons should be edgy" stuff that everyone who thinks their opinions are worth listening to spouts.
 
So, what you're saying is "sit down, shut up and get in the back of the bus," right?

The people in the biz need to make more noise about it. And I am glad responsible people like him, Greg Weisman and others are out there doing just that.
 
But at the end of the day these guys aren't the people who are making the decisions. They can complain all they want but unfortunately it's not going to do anything. A random cartoon nerd could have said the same thing from their parent's basement somewhere on youtube and it would have the same consequences and mean just as little.

Do I agree with him? Yeah. Is it worth complaining about? No.
 
Sadly, people have been complaining about this issue for a long time and things certainly don't seem to be getting better. Isn't Cartoon Network going back and removing things from new shows that were somehow all right to air just a few weeks ago?

I don't think childrens cartoons have to edgy to be successful. But there's no reason they shouldn't be. But as long as parents, backward thinking businessmen and advertisers have their say nothing is going to happen.
 
Well, one can hope a new generation of people can change it.

I think my favorite part of the video was when he talked about how GI Joe is BS. I agree with him. I think most 80s cartoons are generally worthless.
 
Well, I can safely say Crispin Freeman has never picked up a comic book in his life if he thinks it's limited to children's stuff (which couldn't be further from the truth, to be honest: one of the biggest complaints about comics today are that they're too adult. His comments on Teen Titans must have been about the show, since.. that kind of stuff is very prevalent in the comics; but his segway from wanting relationship issues in comics and using Teen Titans suggests he is talking about the comic.. who knows. Comments about "big breasted" women in comics also throws me off, since I see just as much on the Japanese side of things as well. Considering all the girls into stuff like Naruto and Slayers, I don't think that's the issue; but that's for another thread.

His respect for Greg Weisman is the only thing I can really agree with him on. Weisman helped make some of the best American cartoons (Gargoyles, WITCH, Spectacular Spiderman), but I don't remember Weisman ever acting this.. I'm not sure what word to use, but the video came off like a typical angry blog/forum post on how "America stinks". Freeman means well, I'm sure, though he should do some research before he rants, and maybe do it a bit more... tactfully. He had a lot of holes in his argument from what I noticed.
 
I don't know Crispin well, but he is close friends with one of my best friends. He was talking about the show, not the comic. And I know he's watched it. The man is neck deep in animation of all kinds and stripes.

As for comics, he wasn't talking about comics themselves, he was talking about the prevalent attitude that they should be for kids. Listen to him again.

And he did mention quite a bit of American animation. He didn't say "America stinks. Japan great." He did not say that. He was talking about these conservative groups in America more than anything.
 
Yeah, that was pretty much my biggest beef with the video.

He just strikes me as yet another of those people who thinks cartoons need to adhere to what they think a good cartoon should be like. Then again, I'm a person who thinks shows like Spongebob, Chowder and Ed, Edd and Eddy are fantastic cartoons that succeed without having to be edgy at all.
 
But on the other hand, while I don't watch much CN anymore, what I have seen is definitely better than what they were airing a year or so ago. So someone over there is doing something right.

And correct me if I'm wrong but don't characters die in that new Clone Wars show?
 
They kind of dipped downwards a lot when the decided to air live-action and dipped even further when Toonami became nothing but the Naruto block before its eventual demise. They've done some good things but they are far from their height.

And anyway, wouldn't CN improving be a source of hope for you that things will get better?
 
They cancelled their only original live-action show and only showed Goosebumps for a couple of weeks this year. So I think this "live-action on CN" thing is a non-issue these days that needs to be put to bed. Additionally the loss of Toonami (IMHO) was only a good thing for the network because the the block was crashing and burning anyway.



Wait...didn't I just say that?
 
Ah yes, the old "cartoons need to be edgy and dark in order to be good" idiom.

One the one hand, I agree that too much softening up can be a bad thing, and sure, American cartoons can and should be bolder and darker...providing that that's what the show actually calls for. While I don't mind some pushing of the envelope where appropriate, I've never bought into the theory that "dark, mean, brutal and edgy=mature" mentality that so many teens on the internet seem to have. The problem with that is that too many aspiring writers and would-be internet critics seem to view making a cartoon as hard-edged as possible is the ONLY way to make it a quality product, as if its' rating alone somehow improves its' quality.

I've seen plenty of excellent "kiddie" shows which don't have a drop of "maturity" in them, and I've also seen plenty of "adult" shows which were flat-out crap. So while "going hardcore" may be something worth considering, it's not the key to making everything great.
 
Well, I don't know about 'missing the point', but that's just my opinion: 'mature' storytelling is fine if that's what the story in question calls for, but in situations where 'edge' isn't required to tell the story, then it just isn't called for and therefore doesn't need to be inserted just to make some artistic point about 'maturity'. There are plenty of good animated shows out there which aren't edgy at all.

To paraphrase a line from George Carlin: "(Mature animated storytelling) is like a lift in your shoe: if it helps (the story) walk better and it feels good to you, then by all means, use it; but please, don't force me to wear your shoes, and don't try to graft lifts unto the natives' feet."

Again, just my opinion.
 
If you did, you just contradicted yourself when earlier in the thread you said "this sort of thing isn't worth complaining about because this is how things have been for a long time and it's not going to change." If things are getting better, that's a change and thus criticism isn't totally worthless.
 
Back
Top