Column on getting kids to eat - not what you might expect

'Chemo the Clown[_2_ Wrote:

I hear ya. What's the big deal. You don't wanna eat, I bet you will when
you're hungry. half the problem in the USA is eating when not hungry.

This go for many parenting issues. My daughter doesn't want to wear her
winter coat and ita freezing out. Go right ahead. Don't mind me turning
on the AC in the car on a 2 degree day, though.

We must think kids totally stupid they can't sense hunger, cold, pain.
Jeez. make what you make. If they don't want it, fine. They aren't
eating again, though, until the next meal. Make it a practice and your
kid will eat just fine.




--
Gorio
 
On Feb 9, 7:19?am, Boron Elgar wrote:

(snip)

I do not give unsolicited advice to individuals, per se. (Unless
they're nearby and bothering me.)

However, fifty years from now, when I'm old and frail, I do not wish
to be surrounded by young people who just might turn out to be a lot
more worse - i.e., dangerous - than the loud- and foul-mouthed
creatures that so many of them already are. (It's getting so that
saying "shhhhh!" in a LIBRARY gets you angry looks or worse from loud
kids - and I DON'T mean those relatively new areas in libraries where
it's OK to talk loudly. Even some librarians are becoming afraid to
say anything, though I don't know whether it's because they're afraid
of holding on to their jobs, losing patrons, or something else.)

It's bad enough that so many adults use foul language in public -
loudly.

With that in mind, I also do not want to put up with kids over the age
of three who, when they're my GUESTS, yell "I don't like this food!"
Or who say/do worse than that. That was the whole point of Rosemond's
column where he was talking to the producer - one has to raise kids to
be gracious dinner guests. As he said more recently:

"Leadership is simply the calm, confident conveyance of authority. It
is acting like you know what you are doing, the nature of your purpose
and what you want. It is not having a consultation with a 4-year-old
concerning what foods will grace his plate for dinner. Leadership is
not concerned that the child is averse to vegetables. It is concerned
with producing a citizen who loves his neighbor enough to accept,
graciously, any food the neighbor serves him.

"I recently asked an older friend of mine how his parents caused him
to be obedient to their wishes. 'What methods did they use?' I asked.
He thought about that for a while, and then said, 'They didn?t use any
methods at all. They simply expected, and their expectations were
clear.'

"Note that my friend?s parents didn?t plead, bargain, bribe, cajole,
reason, explain or threaten. They simply expected. With the one hand
they loved; with the other they led. And each of the two hands knew
what the other was doing."

(end)

(I'm assuming, of course, that Rosemond wasn't suggesting that, say,
vegetarian adults should have to eat meat if the hosts/guests somehow
forgot to communicate about that in advance.)

Bottom line is: Since no one wants to be lectured directly on manners,
including 5-year-olds, how does one PREVENT being the unfortunate
victim of out-of-control kids and parents who sit, watch and do
nothing? By letting parents know, in advance and indirectly, that this
behavior is unacceptable.

From a poster named Gutterboy: "If you don't want my opinion on how to
raise your children, do not allow your children to behave in a manner
that elicits my opinion."
 
On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:35:50 -0800 (PST), Lenona
wrote:

I am obviously nowhere near you, my dear, so I assume I am bothering
you.

Life can be sweet sometimes.

Boron
 
On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 19:21:30 +0000, Gorio
wrote:


Nope, the problem is wanting to eat but not what's served, called
spoiled brat syndrome... making kids eat what's served teaches them to
become mature responsible adults... they don't have to eat what's
served, send them to their room to sit in the dark and think about the
fact that they'll get served the same exact plate of food tomorrow.
Maybe some of yoose grew up with the tail wagging the dog.

When I grew up I don't ever remember any of us three kids not wanting
to eat what was served. My mother was a good cook and knew what we
liked so that's what she prepared, and there was no menu, whatever mom
cooked was it... and no one else got to cook, in fact we weren't
permitted to open the fridge without permission, lest the ingrredients
for the next meal got eaten in advance. The only time someone didn't
want to eat was when they were physically ill... and it wasn't that
they didn't want to eat, they couldn't.

None of yoose spoiled brats would want to come through my chow line
and whine, I'd learn yoose real fast. And in the military no one but
the duty cook had the keys to the food and the galley. Yoose learn to
be adults real quick. That's the real problem in the USA, way too
many spoiled brats.
 
On Feb 9, 4:06?pm, Boron Elgar wrote:


And what, pray tell, makes you think I was criticizing YOUR parental
techniques in particular? I'm sure you were flawless.

Lenona.
 
I should add that there's another situation, too. That is, I'm sure
even Miss Manners would give special exemptions for truly horrific
cooking.

Example?

From "Coal Miner's Daughter":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZaZuOdMMZ4

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

I can't play this video right now, so I don't know if it has the
complete scene. However, the point of it was that 13-year-old Loretta
made a pie which Doo, her soon-to-be husband tastes - and he reacts
quite negatively but more or less politely. (Loretta was supposed to
use a cup of sugar, but got careless and used salt instead. As Doo
good-naturedly says: "Makes sense. They're both white.")

Lenona.
 
"Brooklyn1" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

My mother grew up in a house where they had to eat what was served. Therer
were 8 kids, they were poor and probably didn't have a lot of food outside
of what they grew or produced themeselves. They had a farm. My grandma
hated to cook. She did like to make desserts but hated to cook. From what
I've been told, she turned the cooking over to the kids.

As such, my mom never really learned to cook much and she wasn't a very good
one in many cases. We did eat out quite a lot! When we did eat at home,
she usually allowed us to choose the meal or at least the vegetables being
served. Exception being when they were on Weight Watchers (both parents)
for over a year.

In those days they pushed white fish which she didn't know how to prepare,
liver and hamburger patties. We always seemed to have canned peas with the
hamburger patties, French cut canned green beans or occasionally stewed
tomatoes. There was usually a wedge of iceberg lettuce with those meals.
Once in a while there was canned asparagus. For dessert? Blueberries taken
straight from the freezer on most nights. When you get those same things
over and over each night with precious little to no seasonings (sometimes
she put dillweed on the poached white fish), you quickly grow sick of
eating. My friends didn't want to eat at my house during that time period.
And neither did I. I found ways to get rid of the food without eating it.
I just went hungry night after night. There was no food to sneak because it
simply wasn't in the house!

Oddly one of my daughter's favorite foods was canned green beans. I gave
them to her when she first started on real food. For years she had to have
them with every lunch and dinner. I did vary the cuts of beans, the brands
of beans and also sometimes served waxed. To this day though her favorite
always has been Del Monte cut green beans. She did go off of them about a
year ago and just flat out refused to eat them for a while and then she
started eating them from my plate. Now she asks for them again. Now I do
not get sick of the beans. As a child, I did. But perhaps it was because
the rest of the menu never varied.

I am always on the lookout for new recipes. We only seem to have "standard"
meals for a while. For a long period of time we ate quite a lot of pasta
with red sauce. Husband is Italian and I do try to give him what he is used
to. That is not one of his favorite foods though. But his mom did serve it
a lot. Then I got really burned out on the pasta. So we stopped eating it
for a while and now I can eat it again.

We might have a more limited diet than most given our food allergies and
pickiness. But I do try to vary what we eat. Often a recipe is tried only
once and then never again. Either because we didn't really like it or
because it was too time intensive. Some things are only made a few times a
year. Like pierogies. Or stuffed potatoes. We all like them but they take
too long to make.

I learned when Angela was very small that most little kids are picky and I
learned what most of them would eat. I often made dinner for not only her
but some of her friends. I did not do chicken nuggets or fries at home in
those days although most kids will eat them. I did macaroni and cheese,
pierogies (I bought frozen in those days), pasta in red sauce or lasagna,
meatballs either in red sauce or Swedish, plain breakfast sausages or
patties, quesadillas, plain pizzas made on English Muffins and tons of
finger foods like raw veggies (most kids like Ranch dip), also hummus for
dip, black olives, cheese cubes, melon cubes, other cut up fresh fruit.
They also all seem to like pretzels and applesauce. I would put out several
of these things. If a kid didn't like one thing there was always something
else they could eat and it would still be a balanced meal.

My daughter goes shopping with me. I let her pick out what looks good. She
can choose from whatever whole foods are there. She is old enough to read
recipes. She helps pick out what we have for the week. If my husband is
with us for the shopping he sometimes picks something out. But I don't
usually let him because he will usually pick out some cockamamie thing that
we won't/can't eat. Or he will pick huge thick steaks. He doesn't
understand cooking at all and as soon as we get in the door he will want
said steaks. He can't wait till we put the rest of the groceries away and
he doesn't understand that it takes a while to cook steaks. At home he
always wants the steaks well done. This is not how he orders them in
restaurants but it is at home.

I guess it would be tough if you had a bunch of kids to feed. Especially
kids of wildly different ages. For the most part I think what a teenager
would want to eat is not what a toddler is going to want to eat. That would
be difficult to please everyone.
 
"Boron Elgar" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

(major snippage)
I certainly wasn't expected to eat MRE's (nor to join the military).

There IS no benefit. There was one rule at the table when I was growing up.
Taste it before you say you don't like it. One, two bites. If I truly
didn't like it, I wasn't forced to eat it. More often than not I liked it
:) Even brussels sprouts and lima beans! I still hate lettuce and dislike
raw vegetables but I was never forced to eat a salad or sent to bed without
supper because I wouldn't chow down on iceburg lettuce.

Jill
 
On Feb 10, 6:16?pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:

I was the only kid in a house with four adults. I was a picky eater.
They found it much easier to make a special meal for me (usually
macaroni with butter, salt, and pepper) than to try to force me to
eat what I didn't want to. Especially after I vomited peas right
back onto the dining table one night when they were determined
that I'd eat them.

During my adolescence I began to accept more kinds of foods as
I ate at restaurants and in others' homes. That accelerated when I
lived in the dorm at college.

Now I quite happily eat a wide variety of foods, exotic cuisines,
and even peas. It all happened quite naturally as I matured.

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill with this
"preparation" idea.

Cindy Hamilton
 
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 18:16:20 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:



Then you put the same plate in front of them until they eat the food,
even if it is fuzzy and green. Oh, and scream, "No wire hangars!"


Yeah, if someone made the choice, that's a world-ender, isn't it?

You know, if you had really read what Dan wrote up above, you
understand that he did not talking about making special meals for any
one person,. but instead, meal-planning so there was a wide variety of
foods, with pretty much something for everyone.

Well, no, it isn't. But don't let that stop the Dickens mentality you
foster.

How many adults are forced to eat what is put in front of them or to
go hungry? Based on your replies so far, you obviously haven't seen a
college food service lately, and MREs come in many varieties and
within each one there are several foods from which to choose. Even the
creepiest elementary schools offer choices to kids, hospitals give out
menus and I bet even Gitmo doesn't force-feed, even if they do a more
thorough face-washing after every meal than international law allows .

Are you a prison matron or just a plain, my-way-or-the-highway sadist?

Boron
 
In article , [email protected]
says...

That's not what was being proposed, what was being proposed was that if
the kid doesn't want to eat what's set before him, he doesn't have to,
but he doesn't get to eat anything else until the next meal.


I'm not the one who came up with it.
 
In article ,
Boron Elgar wrote:



A little before Christmas, somebody on this group suggested tourtiere
for Christmas Eve, a traditional French Canadian dish for that night.
They suggest pickled beets, fried potatoes and cabbage with it. That
sounded good. I checked with the family and they were OK with the
tourtiere. I knew they liked fried potatoes. Nobody but me likes
pickled beets, but that was OK. I skipped the cabbage, reluctantly,
since three of us were going to a church service before, and there
wasn't time for me to cook everything. It was great. I got my pickled
beet fix (a couple of kids had some), and everybody got plenty of food.

http://www.recfoodcooking.com/sigs/Michel Boucher/Tourtière.html


Yeah, most cafeteria arrangements I've seen (sixth grade camp, church
camp) have a jar of peanut butter and one of jelly, along with bread, at
the end of the line. Sometimes it's out, often it's under the counter
on the serving side so you have to ask for it. It's also often the
vegetarian/vegan offering.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
[email protected]
 
Cindy Hamilton wrote:

Especially when I'd visit my father's house, his explosive temper made me
unable to finish anything served to me. Still, under more favorable
circumstances, I was able to eat more of a variety of foods and can't remember
throwing anything up at table. I also can't remember many special meals being
prepared to accommodate my pickiness, only that certain ingredients were
removed from my servings whenever possible. For instance, I would not eat
actual beans for years and could stomach only their broth, which was easy to
accommodate. Latino children often pass through this stage where they will only
eat creamed beans or their liquid. I similarly could not tolerate salted cod,
haddock or mackerell.


The same happened with me, long before I arrived at Columbia U.


Congratulations to us! But it doesn't always happen naturally; childhood
intolerances often get worse during adulthood.


The elephant in our usenet room is that we're basically talking about middle to
upper class people who feel they have the luxury to indulge picky children. In
poorer households, everyone learns, to a certain extent, to eat what is
available. Granted, the person in charge of food procurance and preparation
probably won't waste valuable money or time on foods the family won't eat.

Orlando
 
Boron Elgar wrote:

That usually depends on how long adults want to go without eating. I, for
instance, am dreading tomorrow morning's church prayer breakfast because I know
that any self respecting Jamaican Pentecostal church will serve aki and salt
fish. Salty fish has never appealed to me, and I hear aki's texture is similar
to scrambled eggs, which grosses me out. So, I either go and eat something
else, try everything, go and don't eat or stay home.


That's often an illusion of choice poorly disguising a true lack of variety.

out menus and I bet even Gitmo doesn't force-feed, even if they do a more

If schoolchildren had so much culinary choice, we wouldn't be griping about
childhood obesity. Hospital menus? Most hospital patients with restricted diets
only get one choice according to that diet.


Probably more pragmatic.

Orlando
 
In article , [email protected] says...


I'd have eaten all that (and the cabbage) and so would all my kids. I
love tourtiere. My recipe includes seasoning the pork with savory but I
see yours puts the savory in the pastry; shall try that.


Janet
 
In article ,
Janet wrote:


Because of the time crunch, I used prepared pastry. The recipe is
actually Michel's, so you might start a new thread and ask him about it.

--
Dan Abel
Petaluma, California USA
[email protected]
 
In article ,
Boron Elgar wrote:


I just mailed the recipe to you along with a couple pics of it.




--
Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Holy Order of the Sacred Sisters of St. Pectina of Jella
"Always in a jam, never in a stew; sometimes in a pickle."
Pepparkakor particulars posted 11-29-2010;
http://web.me.com/barbschaller
 
On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 15:11:39 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
wrote:

The photos are gorgeous and the recipe is much appreciated.

Thanks, Barb.

Boron
 
On Feb 9, 1:28?am, "Julie Bove" wrote:



I was always a picky eater too, right from the beginning. Most of it
was texture, so some things my mom was able to adjust such as using
granulated onion vs chunks of onion. I also went to bed early on a
regular basis. I didn't starve though. Even if I refused to eat one
item, there was still something else on the plate that I would eat, so
I was still getting some good nutrition. I was just opting out of
dessert, tv, etc.

Once she had a pretty good idea of what I liked and didn't like, it
wasn't too hard to make a few adjustments without catering. For
example, two veggies could be served. One that I liked and one that I
didn't like. Those who liked both could eat both. Those who didn't
could eat the one they liked.

I am still quite picky (still mostly texture and anything spicy), but
I can eat at other people's houses and still do pretty well, often
with nobody knowing there is a problem. Last summer, I stayed with a
cousin for a few days. His wife served a potpie with that had peas and
green beans along with veggies that I like. I ate it all. The peas
actually tasted good, the first time I have liked peas other than in
split pea soup. I think they were cooked longer so the texture was
better. The green beans were icky for me, but I got them down without
anybody knowing I didn't like them. My sister was there and commented
later that she was impressed at how well I got it down.

Years ago, I went to Mexico 3 times to visit my exchange sister. Three
weeks at a time, and I lost 15 lbs each trip. The one breakfast
involved a spicy sauce, but her mother would serve my plate first and
then add the sauce, so I didn't get anything really spicy. Most things
were great. A few were horrible. One dish had steamed rice, onions,
and peas. That was it. I can eat steamed rice with some sauce, but not
plain sticky rice. And onions and peas and really icky for me. So, I
drank a lot of pop between bites, ate a bread roll between bites, and
I managed to get it down. There were a few times when i excused
myself to use the bathroom because I wasn't sure if the food would
stay down.

Even as a picky eater, I do agree that kids should be given a plate
with variety and the either eat it or they don't. Make sure that
something on it is okay so that they don't starve. But no
replacements, and no dessert or rewards if they don't eat at least
some of everything.
 
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