Blog Talkback: What's Wrong with Disney Feature Animation? - Parts 1 and 2

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Disney's The Princess and the Frog failed to capture audiences, with a production budget of $105 million and a domestic box office take of $104 million. Ed Liu takes a two-part look at where Disney Feature Animation may have gone wrong.

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Also don't miss part 2!
 
Obviously because it was 2D animation and everyone knows 2D is dead. ;) Anyway, I'll admit to being one of the people who never bothered to see it in theaters, mainly because I'm just not into Disney Princess movies (even if it was one of the better ones, in my opinion). The race factor didn't really bother me so much as the marketing behind it. I felt all the push behind 'The First Black Princess!' was pointless and thought that it would obviously lead to backlash. They didn't do that stuff for Mulan, Pocahontas, or Jasmine to my knowledge, so it seems pointless and akin to a kid saying "Ooh, look at me" to get attention. I also will say Disney really doesn't have name recognition in theatrical animation anymore; either through bad reputation or just being too old-fashion for people today. Pixar's namebrand seems to sell movies a lot better these days than Disney's.
 
It is increasingly likely there is something to the "2D theatrical is dead" argument. Which is a shame and only feeds my long running animosity with mainstream audiences ("Blame the audiences!" I say. "Always blame the audiences.")

That said, It is somewhat disappointing that Princess and the Frog ended up such a tepid, backwards-looking production. Just because you go back to 2d doesn't mean you also go back to 1993 animated storytelling, and not even a best example of that style either (let's face it, if people want to watch 1990s Disney, they'll just watch Beauty and the Beast or Lion King again instead). Even I could tell you that audiences' tastes have changed.
 
The REAL reason why Disney Animation is struggling is because their reputation has been ruined. Once that has been restored they'll see more profits. You have to remember that even the Little Mermaid didn't set the box office on fire. That movie wasn't even in the top 10 for 1989. Yet, Beauty and the Beast, two years later, did manage to accomplish that. It even got a Best Picture nomination at the Academy Awards. The first and last till Up this year. Then, Aladdin, the following year, was an even bigger hit. It was the highest grossing film of 1992. And they even managed to top that with the Lion King two years later.

So, Disney just needs to look back at its own history and be patient.
 
i wonder if pixar made a 2d film, if it would do well. Who knows, they may make one some day. After all, there was a time when disney only made 2d and made the switch to 3d. as as for tpatf failing, i blame shrek. that movie ruined everything.
 
I still think it's impressive that PaTF grossed $104 million domestically, while it may not have broke even, it still was a 2-D traditionally animated film that grossed over $100 million.

Compare PaTF's gross to Home on The Range's weak $50 million or Treasure Planet's horrible gross.

The problem with PaTF was that it just wasn't that great of a movie, the whole film felt like it was just copy and pasting all the previous Disney princess films into one, people forget that the reason Little Mermaid, Aladdin, and Lion King were such huge successes was because Disney took a chance in doing something different.

PaTF just looked like Disney was trying to do what they did best in the 90's and people weren't fooled.
 
...Ponyo actually did VERY well for Disney. Heck, I don't even think they were expecting it to break $5 million.

You have to take into account that it was an anime film (meaning a FOREIGN film), so it wasn't destined to make $100 million here, if that was what you were expecting out of it. Plus, it probably didn't even cost Disney more than $2 million to dub it anyways, so you'd have to be crazy not to call it a success for them.

The only "disappointment" I can see from it is that Ponyo wasn't nominated for any US awards like Spirited Away was.
 
While I agree to some extent, this just begs the question of why The Little Mermaid restored Disney's reputation, especially if it wasn't a box office hit. It's possible that P&tF will have the same effect on the next hand-drawn animated movie, but the fact that it's Winnie the Pooh, a well-established moneymaking franchise, will badly throw off any assessments of P&tF's quality affecting the next movie.

As I point out in the article, that also doesn't explain the success of Tinker Bell on video, unless you believe that the new DTV movies are being linked to the classic film in people's minds.



While I appreciate your concerns for precision, accuracy, and succinctness, the "apparently" you cite is there for very specific reasons. The assessment that the movie turned off boys is Disney's, not mine, and I have no idea whether this is something they arrived at on their own or if they have market research to back it up. Either way, I don't entirely agree with the conclusion, so "apparently" was inserted at that point in the sentence as a succinct way to express my doubt about the accuracy of the statement and my general disagreement with it.

If there is doubt to be expressed, I don't understand why words that express that doubt are superfluous. I think only exceptionally poor journalists declare certainty when there is none. Would you have me declare that hand-drawn animation IS equivalent to black-and-white film as a turn-off to audiences when I am not sure that it's true? My selection of words in that section also express a lot of doubt, but that's because I find the conclusion doubtful. Opting for certainty there in an effort to be "more worthy of trust," as you put it, would change my meaning entirely and would not accurately express my thoughts on the subject.

I also find it hard to believe that anybody would not remember Dr. Ed Catmull's first name when it's mentioned in the sentence immediately before the one you quoted.

And, since you asked, I'll use "however" as an alternative to "but" so I'm not just writing "but...but...but...but" all the time. I'm pretty sure there's a "however" in part 2, so I just wanted to make sure you were ready for it and had the reason why I opted to use it ahead of time.

This is definitely a contributing factor that will turn an average performer into a box office disappointment and a disappointment into a flop, but it only pushes the problem downfield. Why did audiences decide The Princess and the Frog (and Bolt and Meet the Robinsons) weren't worth seeing in movie theaters? It's not a general problem -- as I stated, the Chipmunks sequel racked up more than P&tF's entire gross within two weeks, and the Twilight movies are making money hand-over-fist in theaters.

For what it's worth, there was something in the article at one point that dealt with home video's impact, but it was ultimately cut because I felt I was running too long already and it doesn't really answer the question.



I don't know, I think that's akin to saying, "The Alvin sequel was a failure because it made less money than Avatar." The facts are true, but the conclusion seems off the mark. Disney was clearly hoping P&tF was going to be a grand, triumphant return to hand-drawn animation and it wasn't, at least financially. Your examples are hand-drawn animated features at their lowest point creatively and at the box office, so of course P&tF will look better by comparison. I think the better comparisons would be to movies like Tarzan or Mulan, which I would say P&tF compares quite favorably with as a film, but all of which were more successful at the box office.

Just to throw something else out there, I was going to cite Hercules as well, but it didn't make back its production costs by a whole lot, and worldwide domestic gross (in 1997 dollars, admittedly) wasn't much better than P&tF. Maybe I'M not looking back far enough, either.

Anyway, there's more coming in part 2, including some other points raised in this thread and why I think the decision to change Rapunzel to Tangled was the right decision for the wrong reason.
 
There was less competition back then. It was easy for people to discover it on video. Nowadays there's Pixar and DreamWorks. That's enough for people to get their fix. So, Disney restoring its reputation is gonna take a bit longer. Bolt was a great movie, in my opinion, but I haven't seen anyone pay attention to it yet. The Princess and the Frog may suffer the same fate. Word of mouth is traveling slowly, but it'll get there. Look at the Iron Giant. 10 years ago it was a little known movie and now it's a cult classic.
 
I admit, I didn't see PatF in theaters. I don't go to the theaters very often (haven't even gone once yet in 2010), so it has to be a pretty special movie to draw me in. But the main reason I didn't go to PatF is just because the story didn't jump out at me.

Some movies I've seen in theaters: Beauty and the Beast- A heartless prince is cursed as punishment for his selfishness, and he has to earn back his human form by learning to love and be loved in return. Lion King- Evil villains take over the entire kingdom, forcing the protagonist to run away and become a refugee. Years later he reluctantly returns to set things right. Aladdin- A dirt poor streetrat finds an all powerful genie that gives him the ability to wish for anything he wants.

What did PatF have? A princess gets changed into a frog and has to get herself changed back? Where's the underlying philosophical and/or moral grab? Where's the deeper meaning that drives the story? I didn't see the movie, so maybe there is one, but it's not expressed at all in the trailers.


You know what interests me, though? The Snow Queen. Based on what I've read about the original story, it has a lot of potential to pull me into the theater.
 
I blame mainstream moviegoers for a lot of things. Mostly for making things i don't like huge successes, while not giving what i might like a fair chance. (And there are far too many examples for me to list, and they're mostly off topic.)
Very good point. Disney has a tendency to stick with tried, and true formulas that have proven to work them in the past, but are always reluctant to take chances for fear of failure. Which is understandable, but sometimes taking a risk can pay off big. I also blame 'Shrek' for encouraging Hollywood to use that movie's formula as a template that all animated features have to be CGI, and have bad pop culture jokes. Not every animated film has to be like that, and it gets tiresome after a while.Well, Don Bluth was the only competition around at the time, and as The Nostalgia Chick once said, Bluth peaked pretty early, and started to lose his touch by the early 90's. Also, studios want movies that they invest lots of money in to be successful right out of the gate, and they want a quick return on that investment. They never consider the possibility that certain films might end up as cult classics somewhere down the line. Especially when the execs are panicking over the huge losses.
 
Didn't The Little Mermaid gross over $80 million in 1989 dollars? That made it literally the highest-grossing animated feature at the time of its release (not counting an animation/live action hybrid like Who Framed Roger Rabbit). Again, people keep forgetting that movies didn't always have to gross $700 million in order to be considered successful. Something like The Rescuers Down Under was really considered a box office disapointment (and signalled to Disney that they should strenuously pursue fairy tale musicals throughout the 90s).
 
Studio execs, and mainstream moviegoers always keep raising the expectations of movies, and how much money they'll make. If a movie makes what was once consider 'high numbers' in the past, the studios, and the press declares it a 'failure. Even if it made back it's budget. If a 'Twilight' movie costs $100000 million dollars, and only makes $140 million, it'll be considered a huge failure, and it's fangirls, along with 'the gossip industry' would be absolutely livid. :evil: :p
 
I think the problem is that Disney's marketing seems to be at odds with the filmmakers. Did the trailers for The Little Mermaid or Beauty and the Beast have all the funny moments quickly cut together to portray the film as something different than what it was? No. Most of the post-The Emperor's New Groove Disney movies did.

This is what makes me worried about Rapunzel, er... Tangled. Judging from the leaked trailer, does this really even sound like the same movie from when it was originally announced?
 
Very good point. It seems like Disney's last resort to getting the butts in the seats is to, as Glen Quagmire once expressed in song, 'make 'em laugh'. So they stitch together the funny parts into the trailer (You the cow, no you the cow.) hoping to entice the average moviegoer into thinking, 'Wow, that was pretty funny, I'm definitely gonna go see this'.
 
Yes, it did, but it wasn't enough to make the top 10. It ranked as #13. That's good, but compared to the success of Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and the Lion King it's nothing.



Sort of. Movies continue to make more money because of increasing ticket prices. The highest grossing movie of 1989, when the Little Mermaid was released, was Batman. It grossed $251 million. You can look at the $533 million that the Dark Knight grossed in 2008 and say, "woah. TDK is a much bigger hit," but that's not really true. Both movies had a very similar level of success. Its just that in 1989 tickets didn't cost $10.
 
One time I got into a debate about this in another thread. Sometimes, kids just like the toys. Power Rangers is a top-selling toy line, yet they don't get the ratings to back that up. A toy is something you play with. A movie or TV show is something you sit down and watch. It's two different experiences. When I was a kid, Stretch Armstrong was a popular toy. Would a movie or TV show had the same success? I doubt it. A toy that stretches is fun. Watching a guy stretch? Not so much.
 
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