I think criticising us for choosing what are basically mindless fanservice shows are silly. Around here, most of us try to look at things from multiple angles (I can tell you there have been discussions amongst the News team if it's felt one of us isn't giving something a far crack with our commentary) and none of us are saying a show that contains fanservice and violence is automatically bad like a bunch of overprotective prudes. I feel what we did go after is the bottom barrel stuff, the shows targetted at questionable fetishes that are highly disposable and not created with any real lasting value. If some people feel persecuted by this then sorry, but not every work created has a redeeming value. I started watching Japanese animation because the examples I saw boasted strong story telling and compelling characters. I'm not going to support crap, especially not as it slowly cripples the industry like a cancerous tumour.
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Blog Talkback: Toons of the 2000s: Anime We Hope Never Come to America
- Thread starter Sharon L
- Start date
Bronco 212
New member
And channers.
Who outnuraber the posters in this thread, apparently.
Who outnuraber the posters in this thread, apparently.
It was just part of the round up - do a top 5 best, do a top 5 worst. I know that comes close to being equal time for crazies and certainly not Barabi-moral (nothing good to say shutta you mouth,) but it was a fun list to do. Certainly grabbed some eye balls, and well, that's the point of this series of article - have a little fun with light writing, and drive traffic to the blog. Honestly, I didn't think it'd get traction outside of here.
bostonguy98765
New member
Why does it matter? It's a valid comparison. The original School Days visual novel is notorious for having 3 (8 in the PS2 port) 'Bad' endings in which the characters get killed due to the choices the player made, so the anime not ending in such a way would have been fairly disappointing.
You really have to ask yourself, will any of this stuff sell? Stuff that doesn't sell has been licensed before, and doesn't have any fanservice. That doesn't make it a good economic decision. Look at a lot of the shows that crashed and burned on Adult Swim. Poor economic choices not because of fanservice or lack thereof, and they sold like lead balloons.
Look at this from an economic perspective. Would ANYONE buy Ultimate Girls or KissxSis if they were bought over? And not obtain via illegal means. I mean buy online or at the store.
Look at this from an economic perspective. Would ANYONE buy Ultimate Girls or KissxSis if they were bought over? And not obtain via illegal means. I mean buy online or at the store.
No it's not. If School Days were a constant depiction of torture, blood and dismeraberment through it's run then it would have been valid, it's more of a facade through the course with a big wham at the end. The Ruins, Saw and Hostel are all films were the snuff is the appeal it doesn't fool you into thinking something it's not. And yes the games are alot more disturbing than the actual anime given certain route endings are just.........
Believe it or not, our Toons of the 2000s has nothing to do with trolling 4chan. We're a bit more interested in fun retrospectives than wasting our time. Anime We Hope Never Come to America just happened to seem an appropriate partner to the upcoming (and slightly behind schedule) Anime That Still Hasn't Made It To America. That's the beginning and the end of it. The overblown reaction of anyone we've irritated is merely an amusing side effect that'll blow over and be forgotten in a heartbeat. Not a big deal.
Were our selections popular? Among who? A minority of fans in an already niche medium? Maybe some were big in Japan, but popularity there doesn't necessarily translate to popularity over here, especially among the genres represented in this top 5.
--Romey
Were our selections popular? Among who? A minority of fans in an already niche medium? Maybe some were big in Japan, but popularity there doesn't necessarily translate to popularity over here, especially among the genres represented in this top 5.
--Romey
Actually, hentai must be hurting as well, if only because if it was doing well, MediaBlasters should be doing well (which we know they aren't,) and the fact that again, it's something the audience is prone to pirate over purchase is probably a big piece of that (especially since the internet has seemingly changed the minRABet behind pornography as whole - it's not about rewatch, it's about constantly being new and pushing into areas.)
Even then, hentai is never going to be really judged if the plot sucks or often times even if the animation is wack. There you are going for one thing only, which makes it an easier to handle thing than a show that's trying to balance elements against each other (as most fanservice series attempt - sometimes that's action, sometime's it's drama, sometimes it's comedy and surprisingly you'll see a lot of all 3 in play.)
And even then, there is crowd that wants pure porn and a crowd that'd like something a bit more subtle, and while there is crossover, one is certainly larger and more difficult to please than the other.
See, I'd go the opposite, or at the very least, I'd start with the emotional conflict that exists within the male lead - start with a cold open on him telling his father that one day he'd like to marry his sisters, with him then being told he can't do that because even though he's not blood related to them, Japan does not allow polygamy. Ground the drama and thus sell the characters first, then you can get away with more service. Plus, you go from a show that people will only watch for the service, to something that gets actually closer to Ditama's full intent, which is to have the service as one of various hooks to get people into the story. I've read the manga too, and like Mahoromatic, I can see he's working toward something bigger, but the show undermines that by adapting him verbatim.
Thus we go full circle to if it's a chore, it's not a good show, no matter it's trying to accomplish, but when it's trying to cover for that with fanservice, that's worse.
Even then, hentai is never going to be really judged if the plot sucks or often times even if the animation is wack. There you are going for one thing only, which makes it an easier to handle thing than a show that's trying to balance elements against each other (as most fanservice series attempt - sometimes that's action, sometime's it's drama, sometimes it's comedy and surprisingly you'll see a lot of all 3 in play.)
And even then, there is crowd that wants pure porn and a crowd that'd like something a bit more subtle, and while there is crossover, one is certainly larger and more difficult to please than the other.
See, I'd go the opposite, or at the very least, I'd start with the emotional conflict that exists within the male lead - start with a cold open on him telling his father that one day he'd like to marry his sisters, with him then being told he can't do that because even though he's not blood related to them, Japan does not allow polygamy. Ground the drama and thus sell the characters first, then you can get away with more service. Plus, you go from a show that people will only watch for the service, to something that gets actually closer to Ditama's full intent, which is to have the service as one of various hooks to get people into the story. I've read the manga too, and like Mahoromatic, I can see he's working toward something bigger, but the show undermines that by adapting him verbatim.
Thus we go full circle to if it's a chore, it's not a good show, no matter it's trying to accomplish, but when it's trying to cover for that with fanservice, that's worse.
I know perfectly well that the blog wasn't intended to troll 4chan. It's just that that's all it accomplishes. In the spirit of being fair and balanced, we end up with a self-contradictory post which says "We hope that these series sink like a rock and are utterly forgotten, and to that end we're going to make sure everybody who reaRAB this blog knows they exist."
João da Silva
New member
I can't speak for the other four because I haven't seen them, but having watched a few episodes of Chocotto Sister, I fully agree with its place on the list. The whole show concept bored me, and the direction was so bland and the animation so simplistic (outside of some brief fanservice moments) that I didn't even bother to finish it.
Madness to magnet.
New member
And then the world exploded.
ilovepointe
New member
We might hope these anime stay overseas, but it's not our singular mission in life. We do a retrospective of the decade, so we cover the best and the worst. This was a valid category. Pointing out what you're seeing as a contradiction is, I believe, continuing to miss the point about why we're doing a retrospective in the first place.
Even if we were acting according to some type of high-minded ideal, open discussion is still the preferred approach. We're not thought police, and ignorance doesn't make anything go away. If the US anime industry is already eager and willing to pick up, say, Queen's Blade or Strike Witches over shows of merit, turning our backs isn't going to do a darn thing. If there's an audience seeking this stuff out, believe me, they'll find it without our help. Let the swill be acknowledged, condemned, and consciously left behind.
--Romey
Even if we were acting according to some type of high-minded ideal, open discussion is still the preferred approach. We're not thought police, and ignorance doesn't make anything go away. If the US anime industry is already eager and willing to pick up, say, Queen's Blade or Strike Witches over shows of merit, turning our backs isn't going to do a darn thing. If there's an audience seeking this stuff out, believe me, they'll find it without our help. Let the swill be acknowledged, condemned, and consciously left behind.
--Romey
*this war is ours*
New member
No, quality is most definitely a factor. It's not an either/or choice. In every case we were arguing that the anime being discussed couldn't succeed here and didn't merit getting a chance to try, which could not have been well accomplished without discussing their respective faults.
Really? You want to blame it on an innocuous article title instead of 4chan's apparent incapacity to handle opposing opinions? What would you have had us say instead? This is just silly. The title contains no invective whatsoever. It's a straightforward description of what the list is. The content is obviously negative, but we brought our reasons and arguments to the table instead of just listing off insults. Also, your premise is quite wrong. You presume that there is somehow a "problem" going on here but as far as I'm concerned, there isn't one at all.
Aw, come on man. Do you really think that the R1 companies don't already know exactly what is out there? Sure they do. And for my money, if there's anything we don't need at TZ it's more posts acting as if criticism is a vice. It isn't. This is a perfectly valid counterpart to all of the positive retrospective that is going on for this bigger event. If those hyper otaku can't handle their sacred cows being challenged, tough. As for that side remark about supposedly being outnurabered, you know what? The hard fact is that a lot of shows that were less extreme but no less niche got brought over to the United States in this decade, and for the most part they absolutely borabed. Just ask ADV! I'm also fully behind Romey's last post there.
As for the side effect of trolling 4chan, they can't even stand the idea that we would refer to anime as cartoons. They think this place is inhabited by puritan maniacs even though the article was clearly asserting a lack of quality first and foremost, rather than relying on moral platitudes. If we all went out of our way to not say things around here at TZ that would make them throw a fit, I imagine that there'd be damn near nothing of much interest left to talk about.
To put it simply: who cares? I sure as hell don't.
Really? You want to blame it on an innocuous article title instead of 4chan's apparent incapacity to handle opposing opinions? What would you have had us say instead? This is just silly. The title contains no invective whatsoever. It's a straightforward description of what the list is. The content is obviously negative, but we brought our reasons and arguments to the table instead of just listing off insults. Also, your premise is quite wrong. You presume that there is somehow a "problem" going on here but as far as I'm concerned, there isn't one at all.
Aw, come on man. Do you really think that the R1 companies don't already know exactly what is out there? Sure they do. And for my money, if there's anything we don't need at TZ it's more posts acting as if criticism is a vice. It isn't. This is a perfectly valid counterpart to all of the positive retrospective that is going on for this bigger event. If those hyper otaku can't handle their sacred cows being challenged, tough. As for that side remark about supposedly being outnurabered, you know what? The hard fact is that a lot of shows that were less extreme but no less niche got brought over to the United States in this decade, and for the most part they absolutely borabed. Just ask ADV! I'm also fully behind Romey's last post there.
As for the side effect of trolling 4chan, they can't even stand the idea that we would refer to anime as cartoons. They think this place is inhabited by puritan maniacs even though the article was clearly asserting a lack of quality first and foremost, rather than relying on moral platitudes. If we all went out of our way to not say things around here at TZ that would make them throw a fit, I imagine that there'd be damn near nothing of much interest left to talk about.
To put it simply: who cares? I sure as hell don't.