Blog Talkback: Toons of the 2000s: Anime We Hope Never Come to America

Ah Moonphase. The manga is better but it was a very cute little watch. Dub was good too and...

I'm sorry what were we talking about?
 
Sorry, I wasn't trying to one-up you. I actually agree with most of what you've said in this topic. I just wanted to point out that Moonphase is mild. I've been other places where people see Hazuki in her outfit and their minRAB go nuts.
 
That's fine. I was being a bit presumptive, though after wasting my time having multi-page debates on TZ before with people who refuse to refute all of my statements, I wish to dodge that as much as possible in future. With all the worRAB I've thrown at this talkback, I could have written up the rest of the entries for our best unlicenced anime list, and maybe taken a crack at my long overdue review of the xxxHolic boxset.

Oh, and as someone who bought the Moonphase anime in singles (taking care to get the LEs with the postcarRAB that came with the volume one w/ box,) and dropped collecting the manga after volume 4 was edited, I know it's mild, and that lot of what there is woven in with the plot, and that it rarely if ever seems to distract from the story. It's not half bad as a story either, but that's the point - Moonphase was an okay show, and a certainly better anime than a lot of the other titles on the list if only for the interesting and well-constructed mythology, and somewhat unique comedic layout. However, it was a mediocre performer at best, which bodes poorly for shows that are trying to use heavier service to compensate for a weaker story and characters. In short, if Moonphase can't make it work here, how can it be anything but grim for Kojika and Chokotto, where you have no chance of opening the demographic up beyond the most hardcore of otaku in a market where the hardcore often seem loathed to layout for a series, opting for merchandise instead? I mean, that's the real killer for those titles - you get one narrow demographic, and that's not gonna change.
 
Because they're busy trying to catch actual criminals, save the economy and keep North Korea from acquiring nuclear weapons?

A better question: Why should the Japanese government do anything about this? TV shows, no matter how bad they are, cannot hurt you.
 
If it was that ridiculous from episode one, it would have been intentionally made to be crazy like that. Then it would have been hilariously awesome.

But it's not. It's done so straight that it kills it. The fact that the final episode is like that is just... well, durab.

Believe me, if School Days was some kind of hilariously over the top soap like you described it would be great. But it's just not.
 
Yeah, when I was watching the first episode of School Days, I was like "This doesn't seem so bad. When does that thought get crushed?" I need to watch more of it to form an opinion since the first episode seems to put me in a comfort zone if "it isn't as bad as people say it is." but I know it goes south sooner or later.
 
Moved to after all the people who posted while I was editing.


Yeah, I can appreciate the difficulty there, given that most of the well-known bad stuff has been licensed already (Pilot Candidate and Love Hina would definitely have been on my list otherwise). I think a big sticking point here is that there has to be an element of disappointment for a series to be considered bad. A story or show is bad when it sets out to do something and then fails at it; the more glaring the failure, the greater (and more hilarious) the show's badness. There was an artsy action series called Kurozuka last year which intrigued in places, but meandered so heavily in its plot and "huh?" sci-fi twists that it was just a pain in the neck to follow, and then came to a conclusion that seemed to epitomize randomness. The action scenes were well-done enough. If the story hadn't been as arabitious as it was, those alone would have sustained it. But when the storyline tried and failed, the entire show suffered heavily because of it. We've seen this before; even if it hadn't had a raft of other issues, Gundam SEED Destiny pretty much tore itself apart due to trying to do things storywise that simply didn't work with the setting and characters.

I wouldn't have put Queen's Blade on this list even if it hadn't been licensed, because it has no pretensions of being anything other than what it is: a gigantic outlet for male hormones via large-breasted women ripping each other's clothes off (and bizarre Japanese sexual fetishes). The writers knew exactly what they were going for, and fans of the franchise would be disappointed if that's not what they got; furthermore, there's not much they could have done to make the show better at that goal. Does that make it award-worthy? Of course not - but it's not shooting for any awarRAB, and it's certainly not meant to be a classic for the ages.

Now, are these titles going to sell over here? In many cases, probably not, but the anime industry produces a lot of duRAB in any case. The list is dressed up as "Anime We Hope Never Come to America (because they're bad)." Sales don't enter into it. GaoGaiGar was a pretty big flop over here, and people really should have seen it coming. Was it a bad series? No; it did everything that a toyetic giant robot show for kiRAB was supposed to do.
 
I can't help but find this silly; the anti-censorship argument would be far better off without that comment coming up. It reminRAB me of fanboys back in the day that insisted that Dragon Ball Z was progressive and edgy by virtue of its violence and language (real or made up). Let's not have censorship giving special credit to subpar content that it doesn't deserve. Is our standard really "if American TV doesn't want to air it, it's awesome!"? Of course, given that the episode didn't air on most stations due to a murder involving a sixteen year old girl the day before it was scheduled, you ought to recheck your premises. I believe only AT-X aired it eventually, and that was with the blood recolored to black and censored sound effects. You know, the kind of rotten stuff that only happens on Disney XD. Heh.

On top of that, there's plenty of censorship for second and third tier shows that gets removed for the disc release, creating an incentive for the mega otaku to buy uncut DVD's. So, is Japan suddenly prudish like America supposedly is these days, or is the industry just pushing its luck more than it should?

Anyhow, yes, Government can't/should not micromanage the industry. Should people be demanding a better product than something like this? The pitiful protests of 4chan notwithstanding, of course they should.

On Elfen Lied, I don't know...we have Section23 instead of ADV now, don't we? And of course School Days is utterly unremarkable except for the final episode, whereas Elfen at least had something to distinguish it as out of the ordinary. Something that I personally hated, but it existed.
 
Duly noted, but what I meant was that some titles can be a surprise hit. I would have never thought a show such as Eiken would be anywhere near a top 10 chart or aired on TV, but it happened. I don’t know how, but by the power of grayskull, it happened.



Cute detailed character designs, fluid animation, and wacky sexual hi-jinks?



You missed my entire point, bro! I’m not saying there are no bad shows just that some only set out to do a specific thing. For example, if a martial arts flick had lots of jaw dropping and well choreographed fight scenes but little actual story I don’t think it should automatically be considered a bad movie. But if a martial arts flick fails in delivering its main goal of good martial arts action (inexperienced fighters, sloppy direction, etc) and added nothing else to the table it, would be bad.



Couldn’t have said it better myself.
 
I don't see a problem with it being made.. just a problem of it being bought. If one person makes up some tasteless stuff, that's one thing, but when thousanRAB of people stand in line to get it, then you have a bigger problem with society as a whole. Don't censor it, just figure out why people are so drawn to that kind of stuff.
 
OOOh! I thought I had it the last time, but this time I think I got it. What you are saying is that in the context of fanservice shows, quality comes down to whether or not it arouses someone sexually, and a good story and characters would just be a bonus. So if a blatant fanservice show doesn't "get the job done" it's bad, but if it "bob's your uncle" so to speak, it's the equivalent of "Hamlet". Bro! I'm glad we finally cleared this up.
 
Just because it's horrible, tasteless, and bad, doesnt make it banworthy.
It's not like people are rushing to ban the Saw series, and that's 10 times as worse as this is.
 
*sigh*

Did we really need yet another "oh no, somebody else might watch this" thread this month? I'm seriously struggling to see the point here beyond trolling 4chan, which isn't much of an accomplishment given that they're the most easily-trolled community on the entire Internet.

Here's the thing: if you really, really want a series to die before it can reach America, stop giving it exposure. This thread isn't going to change anybody's mind. The people posting here in agreement with you were never in danger of picking the series up and becoming fans. On the other hand, all those angry channers downranking the blog are also potential anime buyers, and companies are going to take their sales into account when making acquisitions, whether you like it or not. Some similarly-minded folks may even learn about these series because of this thread. Your public service announcement can only add to the 4chan legions; it's never going to decrease them.

Look, I know it's frustrating that stuff you can't stand is popular while stuff that you like is forgotten, but standing on the street corner with a cardboard sign and shouting at passersby about the evils of Children's Hour is not going to change that. Plus, it's really annoying to walk by those people while running your daily erranRAB.

If you want the shows you like to get licensed instead, the only thing you can do is make sure that more and more people know about them. Something like this, on the other hand, will accomplish nothing.

EDIT: Ironically, if School Days had stayed true to its roots and been a hentai series, there wouldn't be a word of complaint if Media Blasters picked it up.
 
This list isn't so much about the quality of the show themselves but rather if it would sell or not.

Only the Japanese care THIS much about loli!
 
Why are you comparing niche otaku anime to a mainstream horror slasher franchise?
And as many people in this thread has stated the series only noteworthy achievement is it's last episode which is more or less used for shock value if anything.

Edit: I'm surprised Moe-tan didn't make the list
 
Why lots of people are drawn to sex and perverted things (and i guess violence in school days case)?, whats to figure out? This is not a problem with society. If you think this is a problem (i don't), then it'd be a problem with humanity in general, not society. IMO the stuff in the Saw movies is far worse then the last episode of School Days.
 
However, top ten on rightstuf also isn't a decent indicator of market penetration. Getting sales on a otakucentric site is a minimum. If it been gotten on the billboard video sales charts in a significant position, that would be a real success. Also, for every Eiken, you have 9 flops, and well, you can't support 9 flops with one Eiken. You can't even do that with one Evangelion (ADV.)



Yeah, truly fluid/consistent animation is not in play in the shows listed (Haruhi they are not,) they couldn't seem to stick their character sheets, and wackyness hinges on the show sticking the humor, which requires good direction, which was also absent. Thus, even a fanservice show can be held to some pretty standard quality measurements. It's little things that make that world of difference between Tenchi or Ranma or Onegai Teacher vs. Daphne in the Brilliant Blue or Onegai Twins or the harems on our listed series. It isn't just the hi-jinks or the bounce, it's how and what you surround them with.

I mean, let's take Midori Days, which on concept sounRAB like a prime suspect for a worst of list. However, it sticks all the technical hallmarks, and it does so by giving the humor and drama (which defines and sells your characters) the same attention as the fanservice (which means the direction had to be good.) Good direction often comes with good animation and storyboarding (as it does in Midori,) but even in the absence of good animation, you can cheat if the direction is good (Evangelion is the ultimate example of this, but even shows like Niea_7 and Legend of Black Heaven brilliantly underscore that principal - direction covers more failures than fanservice ever can.)



Yeah, but the shows on our list are often lauded by their supporters for delivering story in addition to the titillation (even Kiss X Sis, which is no doubt more more vapid than KnJ) but I would contend otherwise because the titillation (which there fans would contend is secondary or at most par) gets in the way, and then does damage not only to the story, characterization and direction, but also to the technical aspects by creating inconsistent quality through out, jarring viewers out of there suspension of disbelief with suddenly stiff or off-model animation or clumsy pacing or storyboarding. To buy in at the point where the story/animation is being mucked up with service, then you have to be enjoying the fanservice alone, and that kind of fanservice hasn't sold in the US, making them a very poor pick up for a US company.

I mean, if you want to do a fun fanservice show, it's gotta be fun, not a chore. You want to make an emotional/dramatic fanservice show, you have to feel for the characters. You want to do both in a service, you've got to be brilliant because you're juggling a range of emotions, and if you don't, you're gonna drop the ball, and that's exactly what happens to the shows on our list. The service out runs the directors ability to stick the other elements they are attempting to interject, undermining their overall intent.

In short, they are exactly like a martial arts film made with bad actors who can't fight, and a director who can't even capture/compensate for the pulled punches.

I guess on that basis, I concede that Queen's Blade wouldn't make it if it'd been unlicensed. It's a porn show, and it pretenRAB to be nothing else but a porn show, and a nicely rendered one at that, so yes, it's a success. It's still a questionable pick up because unless it was dirt cheap it won't pay for itself as it's audience is too narrow (and too prone in the US for skipping out on DVRAB and buying merch instead since they probably already watched it via various methoRAB sans payment.) It's also still not something I'm ever going to recommend over something that uses it's sexuality as part of a more rounded, polished package that actually tells something of a story.

PS: 400+ downvotes. No one is ever going to touch that. Thanks internet
 
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