Fat Chance with Jesus
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Karl Olson tackles the state of the anime industry and the steps necessary for it to reverse its course in Anime in the Coming Decade.
Blog Talkback: Anime in the Coming Decade
- Thread starter Fat Chance with Jesus
- Start date
Katy at Star City.
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Waits with flame retardant.
Chocolate Chica
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I would think if you are talking about merchandise, yugioh would come to mind in addition to Pokemon and others.
And that segment is effectively at no risk. Since AstroBoy, bringing over anime for kids has been a solid venture, and now it's somewhat more codified and understood, making it a safe bet so long as kids watch animation of any sort. However, unless those kids have a variety of programs to grow into (rather than just a few narrow genres,) they won't stick around to support the medium.
As it stands, that's probably a major factor why the boom-era fans have started to peel off. They've even out grown a lot of the stuff that was more mature than pokemon (eventually, you stop being an angsty/horny teen, and thus Evangelion and Love Hina don't hold quite the same appeal,) and since even at the best of times their isn't a lot of seinen and josei anime, and only a small fraction of seinen and josei manga make it overseas, so their involvement in the fandom had no compelling reason to continue cause it had no where to go. However, if that is exacerbated by a further reduction in variety, that's only going to make an existing issue more difficult.
As it stands, that's probably a major factor why the boom-era fans have started to peel off. They've even out grown a lot of the stuff that was more mature than pokemon (eventually, you stop being an angsty/horny teen, and thus Evangelion and Love Hina don't hold quite the same appeal,) and since even at the best of times their isn't a lot of seinen and josei anime, and only a small fraction of seinen and josei manga make it overseas, so their involvement in the fandom had no compelling reason to continue cause it had no where to go. However, if that is exacerbated by a further reduction in variety, that's only going to make an existing issue more difficult.
grinning goblin
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You really think that K-ON could be licensed and marketed in the US, Karl?
I don't know.:shrug:
I don't know.:shrug:
pk read pk
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You are god among men, Mr. Olson.
The industry has been in a creative decline for a while now, and you really pointed out the main reasons why: the overpricing of licenses and the over-saturation of otaku-centric series. I have noticed the increasing disinterest in anime among my friends and colleagues. In fact, it's one of the reasons why I am working on a presentation analyzing Evangelion for my anime club. There is instant gratification with most recent series, but the quality series have so much to offer for years to come. It's why I rather see Michiko to Hatchin over here before K-ON! There's nothing wrong with moe. Sometimes you need sugar with your coffee but not a cup full of gritty, caffeine-saturated, sweet sand.
The industry has been in a creative decline for a while now, and you really pointed out the main reasons why: the overpricing of licenses and the over-saturation of otaku-centric series. I have noticed the increasing disinterest in anime among my friends and colleagues. In fact, it's one of the reasons why I am working on a presentation analyzing Evangelion for my anime club. There is instant gratification with most recent series, but the quality series have so much to offer for years to come. It's why I rather see Michiko to Hatchin over here before K-ON! There's nothing wrong with moe. Sometimes you need sugar with your coffee but not a cup full of gritty, caffeine-saturated, sweet sand.
I think it'd be fine... if it was in one or two boxsets (two only if you're pulling the upcoming second season too, and you're being prompt about getting the first season out to strike while people may vaguely care) at a total MSRP of no more than about 60 bucks, and you didn't do any zany LE nonsense in conjunction with it. In fact, it's niche enough that unless you're FUNimation, you might even pass on dubbing it. But yeah, you can turn a buck on that way, provided Kyoto has their head on straight and recognizes it might at best only move 10k copies total in the US.
For that matter, even the most recent season of Haruhi could make a buck in the US... if the whole thing is two-discs in a standard DVD case for a $30 MSRP, and the Japanese are seeing nothing upfront (royalties only.) Again, you might even skip the dub, or atleast cheat by dubbing endless eight such you're never repeating lines.
Well, like I said, in the long term, anime won't have growth without it. It'll be this thing for kids and a handful of nerdy teens and 20-somethings, and adults (who previously had stuck with the medium,) will peel off because nothing will be available to appeal to them unless they are emotionally stunted. They'll get their fill of moe and harems and high school dramedies and mediocre dating sim adaptions and if they are lucky the occasional existentialist tome, and they'll be done with medium because they'll have nothing to grow into.
For that matter, even the most recent season of Haruhi could make a buck in the US... if the whole thing is two-discs in a standard DVD case for a $30 MSRP, and the Japanese are seeing nothing upfront (royalties only.) Again, you might even skip the dub, or atleast cheat by dubbing endless eight such you're never repeating lines.
Well, like I said, in the long term, anime won't have growth without it. It'll be this thing for kids and a handful of nerdy teens and 20-somethings, and adults (who previously had stuck with the medium,) will peel off because nothing will be available to appeal to them unless they are emotionally stunted. They'll get their fill of moe and harems and high school dramedies and mediocre dating sim adaptions and if they are lucky the occasional existentialist tome, and they'll be done with medium because they'll have nothing to grow into.
There's a couple of "their"'s in the first paragraph of the 4th section that should be "there".
/grammar nazi>
Anyway, yes, totally agree. Needs more creativity, freedom and awesome. Pretty soon, the animation industry in Japan's gonna look a helluva lot like the animation industry in America - only a few titles being made, most of them fairly cookie cutter, all of them outsourced for the most part. And none of them really worth the price of DVD's.
/grammar nazi>
Anyway, yes, totally agree. Needs more creativity, freedom and awesome. Pretty soon, the animation industry in Japan's gonna look a helluva lot like the animation industry in America - only a few titles being made, most of them fairly cookie cutter, all of them outsourced for the most part. And none of them really worth the price of DVD's.
collision_22
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Yeah their are some tweak too be made. 
In a screwed up way, as bad as the US networks/blocks have been at points during this decade on how they've handled some series, they've also managed to give some creators fantastic runs where they've been fairly free to really express themselves. I mean, Cartoon Network and Nick both made some major gaffes this decade, but they also both put their weight behind titles that seem to have perennial appeal, and have nurtured as many amazing talents as they've squashed. I can scarcely think of good animation director from this decade that hasn't had the chance to at least work on a really good show, if not create a long running title or two themselves, and a lot of those shows were merched out pretty well too. They also often took the time to let a title find an audience and grow into itself such that it could be a real success, even when it might have been easier to kick people to the curb. If they hadn't, a lot more than just Invader Zim and Sheep in the Big city would've been canceled early.
In short, just as was the case for 1990's, the 2000's were a decade where American animators had the keys the asylum most of the time, and were left alone to run it barring some standards and practices issues (and that changed dramatically with Adult Swim, as it opened the door for stuff like SuperJail and Aqua Teen Hunger Force - the audience which animation was being made for broadened significantly.) Japan, in contrast, feels like there was this run from about Evangelion through Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd GiG or maybe the first Haruhi series where creative work was getting the same attention as patently commercial work, especially when you add the rider the show not being a product of attempt to keep anime from losing diversity (IE: exempting Noitamina.) Past that point, the creative people are being squirrel away to work on extremely avant-guarde stuff, barring the occaisional good manga or light novel adaptation. In fact, there has been very little in the way of good stuff in the past half-decade or so that was done as an anime first. You have Michiko to Hatchin and Samurai Champloo, but I'm hard pressed to come up with another great anime original on the spot from the past 5 years that was very viable commercially. The other good originals as of late have been very weird and inaccessible, which iscool, but not necessarily helpful in a broad sense.
In a screwed up way, as bad as the US networks/blocks have been at points during this decade on how they've handled some series, they've also managed to give some creators fantastic runs where they've been fairly free to really express themselves. I mean, Cartoon Network and Nick both made some major gaffes this decade, but they also both put their weight behind titles that seem to have perennial appeal, and have nurtured as many amazing talents as they've squashed. I can scarcely think of good animation director from this decade that hasn't had the chance to at least work on a really good show, if not create a long running title or two themselves, and a lot of those shows were merched out pretty well too. They also often took the time to let a title find an audience and grow into itself such that it could be a real success, even when it might have been easier to kick people to the curb. If they hadn't, a lot more than just Invader Zim and Sheep in the Big city would've been canceled early.
In short, just as was the case for 1990's, the 2000's were a decade where American animators had the keys the asylum most of the time, and were left alone to run it barring some standards and practices issues (and that changed dramatically with Adult Swim, as it opened the door for stuff like SuperJail and Aqua Teen Hunger Force - the audience which animation was being made for broadened significantly.) Japan, in contrast, feels like there was this run from about Evangelion through Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex 2nd GiG or maybe the first Haruhi series where creative work was getting the same attention as patently commercial work, especially when you add the rider the show not being a product of attempt to keep anime from losing diversity (IE: exempting Noitamina.) Past that point, the creative people are being squirrel away to work on extremely avant-guarde stuff, barring the occaisional good manga or light novel adaptation. In fact, there has been very little in the way of good stuff in the past half-decade or so that was done as an anime first. You have Michiko to Hatchin and Samurai Champloo, but I'm hard pressed to come up with another great anime original on the spot from the past 5 years that was very viable commercially. The other good originals as of late have been very weird and inaccessible, which iscool, but not necessarily helpful in a broad sense.
calgaryAlbertaMovieguy
New member
I agree with very much if not all of your thoughts here Karl.
There needs to be a change and soon if this industry is going to last.
And as far as US TV goes the fact that Naruto has been pushed off to a channel that's not all that available to US viewers and the likes of SGT Frog and One Piece are nowhere to be found on US television really makes things look bleak.
There needs to be a change and soon if this industry is going to last.
And as far as US TV goes the fact that Naruto has been pushed off to a channel that's not all that available to US viewers and the likes of SGT Frog and One Piece are nowhere to be found on US television really makes things look bleak.
donaldwoullard
New member
While I agree with the overall meat of the article in that the industry needs more "mainstream" hits and less (though not zero) ultra-niche titles to stay alive, I think the word "moe" is thrown around way too loosely nowadays. Moe isn't a type of show. It isn't even a type of big-eyed character design, despite what the haters would have you believe. It's a feeling unique to every individual, an attachment towards certain characters.
I would contend otherwise; it can be said to be a type of show, especially when the predominant reason for a show's existence is to elicit that feeling from the viewer via any tropes necessary. Further still, it's always been used as adjective for characters, especially since it's jump into the English language, and that can be used to describe one thing can often be used to describe another.
I agree with a decent amount of this article, it does need to reverse its course, sure Moes & ecchi Titles get em the quick cash from the groups that watch em..but the studios need to foucus more on shows that can appeal to mulitple age gruops & Demographics.
they do indeed need more diversity, moe & ecchi shows are fine as long as theres a decent amount of shonen, seinin, shojo, mahou shojo, etc to go with them.
also Would'nt hurt companies to co-produce series.
they do indeed need more diversity, moe & ecchi shows are fine as long as theres a decent amount of shonen, seinin, shojo, mahou shojo, etc to go with them.
also Would'nt hurt companies to co-produce series.
Agree completely.
Before, anime used to be a haven for fans of serious action animation as well as drama and scifi.
Now it's nothing but fanservice, harem, moe, and loli.
bah.
Only a few vestiges of the "old style" remain, in gundam and the evangelion movies, as well as a few others.
Before, anime used to be a haven for fans of serious action animation as well as drama and scifi.
Now it's nothing but fanservice, harem, moe, and loli.
bah.
Only a few vestiges of the "old style" remain, in gundam and the evangelion movies, as well as a few others.
TraderVic70
New member
The only way I see K-On "quick release" working is if Section23 or Bandai Entertainment get it. Let's be realistic too that K-On probably won't be a big hit here. Why bother spending thousands of dollars dubbing it?
- Bandai Entertainment pulling a Kannagi on K-On would utterly awesome. 7 episodes per disc, sub-only, each disc sold exclusively on Amazon Marketplace and RightStuf for about $27 or so right off the bat, as usual.
- Section23 would probably work best, you'd only have to wait 2 months (you'd still have excitement factors), as it would mysteriously appear on their solicitations for the complete set and pay about $24 for the full series if its sub-only. That would be freaking awesome and win.
- Funimation with K-On wouldn't work. They license it and everyone will forget about about it 8-16 months down the line. Not to mention if it does poorly here, no second season here from Funimation.
Bandai Ent and S23 would finish it out, they seem pretty dedicated to their fans. S23 would be the best case scenario for K-On DVD, by far. Funimation would be worst case.
Funimation, R1 big boy's philosophy of "if its popular in Japan, we'll try to get it" is an approach that will fail. Being popular in Japan =/= being popular in America, this also applies vice-versa. 9 out of 10 times, this is extremely false.
However, then you have to factor in the Blu-ray, S23 hasn't done any blu-ray releases yet (but I can't help but wonder if they are on the horizon...) so that gives a good probability to Funimation or Bandai Entertainment in that area.
- Bandai Entertainment pulling a Kannagi on K-On would utterly awesome. 7 episodes per disc, sub-only, each disc sold exclusively on Amazon Marketplace and RightStuf for about $27 or so right off the bat, as usual.
- Section23 would probably work best, you'd only have to wait 2 months (you'd still have excitement factors), as it would mysteriously appear on their solicitations for the complete set and pay about $24 for the full series if its sub-only. That would be freaking awesome and win.
- Funimation with K-On wouldn't work. They license it and everyone will forget about about it 8-16 months down the line. Not to mention if it does poorly here, no second season here from Funimation.
Bandai Ent and S23 would finish it out, they seem pretty dedicated to their fans. S23 would be the best case scenario for K-On DVD, by far. Funimation would be worst case.
Funimation, R1 big boy's philosophy of "if its popular in Japan, we'll try to get it" is an approach that will fail. Being popular in Japan =/= being popular in America, this also applies vice-versa. 9 out of 10 times, this is extremely false.
However, then you have to factor in the Blu-ray, S23 hasn't done any blu-ray releases yet (but I can't help but wonder if they are on the horizon...) so that gives a good probability to Funimation or Bandai Entertainment in that area.
In some ways, I think the current problems with anime reflects the social climate in Japan right now.
Japan's going through a demographic crisis. Their birth rate has been declining from a while now. As a result, the pool of young people eager to get into anime has been shrinking. At the same time, the overall population is getting older and older. So instead of trying to attract new customers, the anime companies create more and more otaku-centered stuff to keep the fans they already have. But such a strategy is a dead-end. All it does is feed off the problem rather than try to solve it. A downhill battle.
I could be way off, but that's what I've been seeing.
Japan's going through a demographic crisis. Their birth rate has been declining from a while now. As a result, the pool of young people eager to get into anime has been shrinking. At the same time, the overall population is getting older and older. So instead of trying to attract new customers, the anime companies create more and more otaku-centered stuff to keep the fans they already have. But such a strategy is a dead-end. All it does is feed off the problem rather than try to solve it. A downhill battle.
I could be way off, but that's what I've been seeing.
True declining population can effect your social climate...but you would think if the anime fans in japan were around the teen & adult age group they would want more anime with that old fashioned felling to them.
Personally I would love to see more series that have that old fashioned Flair to them, While still giving you somthing new. (also would love to see more anime like NGE or FLCL,)
Also really hope all the Moe/Ecchi/Loli stuff decreases this decade.
Personally I would love to see more series that have that old fashioned Flair to them, While still giving you somthing new. (also would love to see more anime like NGE or FLCL,)
Also really hope all the Moe/Ecchi/Loli stuff decreases this decade.
Well thought out article Karl. It was a very good read
Okay now see, I really can't agree with this. Yes, there is way too much moe/harem/what-have-you shows around nowadays but stuff like "It's nothing but..." is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's true that the fact that a good bit of the anime coming out in 08 and this season's Winter 09 session were not the most mainstream of titles but it's not like there's absolutely nothing to enjoy of the upcoming shows (Durarara for one).
Plus, it's not like there wasn't stinkers "before" either. I acknowledge the shift in the anime biz noticible and quite a tough performance to watch but it's not as if the enjoyment has faded completely.
Okay now see, I really can't agree with this. Yes, there is way too much moe/harem/what-have-you shows around nowadays but stuff like "It's nothing but..." is just rubbing me the wrong way. It's true that the fact that a good bit of the anime coming out in 08 and this season's Winter 09 session were not the most mainstream of titles but it's not like there's absolutely nothing to enjoy of the upcoming shows (Durarara for one).
Plus, it's not like there wasn't stinkers "before" either. I acknowledge the shift in the anime biz noticible and quite a tough performance to watch but it's not as if the enjoyment has faded completely.