Big Tourer
- Thread starter ஐK.A.Pஐ
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[email protected]
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That would be nice. I'd be in line for one.
As far as I have heard, Suzuki has no plans for that at all. They were hurt badly on the Cavalcade, which came in a distant fourth in the sales wars with the Goldwing, Venture, and Voyager last time they tried it. Suzuki has shown a 50% drop in sales this year, so there is a huge glut of unsold 2009 and even 2008 models at dealerships, which is why the 2010s have been so slow in coming. Suzuki has done layoffs, job sharing, and production stoppages this year, so a major investment in s new type of bike, with a new motor, new frame, and a bunch of new features, just is not in the works.
Rather than expanding their line, Suzuki is consolidating it: the 2010 M50 will now use the same motor as the C50. The S50 is going away soon. The current C90 will soon be dropped for a new C90r, using the same motor as the M90r. This will give them 9 cruiser models using three frames and three motors, with only 'bolt on' differences like the front end, sheetmetal, different wheels, bags, etc: the C50, C50T (add a windshield, sissy bar, and bags), and M50 (different sheet metal and inverted forks); the C90r, C90rT and M90r; and the C109r, C109rT, and M109r.
Huge production savings, huge savings from buying and stocking lots of shared parts, and a a strong family resemblance to give Suzuki cruisers a 'brand identity.'
Maybe when things pick up in 3-5 years we will see a big Suzuki tourer again, but not now.
Rather than expanding their line, Suzuki is consolidating it: the 2010 M50 will now use the same motor as the C50. The S50 is going away soon. The current C90 will soon be dropped for a new C90r, using the same motor as the M90r. This will give them 9 cruiser models using three frames and three motors, with only 'bolt on' differences like the front end, sheetmetal, different wheels, bags, etc: the C50, C50T (add a windshield, sissy bar, and bags), and M50 (different sheet metal and inverted forks); the C90r, C90rT and M90r; and the C109r, C109rT, and M109r.
Huge production savings, huge savings from buying and stocking lots of shared parts, and a a strong family resemblance to give Suzuki cruisers a 'brand identity.'
Maybe when things pick up in 3-5 years we will see a big Suzuki tourer again, but not now.
Ineedhelp000000
New member
A buddy just put a nice aftermarket batwing fairing and some hard bags on his C109rT, so while he lacks the electronic cruise control and other features of a true touring bike, it is great on long trips, and he at least has the storage and the radio. Sort of a halfway step towards the touring bike he will eventually get.
*{-Lily(<3)Rain-}*
New member
Begging your pardon - I must have missed the memo - what are the differences between said bikes and their respective engines?
Well I always thought that the M50 and the C50 used the same motor. As far as the 90 it is a completely different motor. The current C90 motor is air/oil cooled...three valves per cylinder...45 degree v twin... The M90 on the other hand is water cooled... four valves per cylinder....52 degree v twin... I'm sure that there are other differences... Just a few off the top of my head.
The S50 uses an circa 1989 805cc, high compression, high-reving twin carb motor originally found in the VX800, a standard that looked like a naked sportbike that was canceled after only three years. The motor was too good to drop so it went into the Intruder 750 frame to make the Intruder 800, which had its name changed to S50 in 2005. A great bike, but it sells poorly now, and it is expensive to produce because it does not share a motor or frame (or really anything else for that matter) with any other Suzuki model.
The C50 uses a lower compression engine designed in 2000 or so. The C50 motor is also 805ccs for marketing reasons, but shares no parts with the 805 from the Intruder. It originally had a single carb back when it was called the Volusia, when meant that the rear cylinder is backwards compared to the Intruder or Marauder 805 motors. It is physically fatter to look like a bigger displacement motor that it is, and makes power at lower RPM, and has different gearing in the tranny to match. It was updated with fuel injection when the Volusia was renamed the C50 in 2005.
The M50 uses a more blacked out version of the C50 motor developed in 2004, with different valve train, ever so slightly different heads, and different cases (not just because of the color but also because the main bearings are a different design). It uses the same fuel injection system and electronics as the C50, and power is identical. This motor goes away, and the M50 will now use the same exact motor as the C50, reducing production costs and simplifying logistics at the factory.
The C90 uses a 1500cc motor that dates to 1997, and was loosely based on the discontinued Intruder 1400/ S83 motor: air cooled with a system that pushes oil through an oil cooler and then sprays it onto the bottom of the pistons for additional cooling. Originally built with two carbs, it gained fuel injection when the name was changed from Intruder 1500LC to C90 in 2005.
The M90r uses a brand new water cooled motor, basically a scaled back version of the M109r/ C109r motor. It revs higher, has more valves, and flows more air, and makes more power then the current C90 motor. Suzuki plans to kill off the old C90 and build a new C90r, which will use the M90r motor in a more 'classic' looking, full fendered bike (along the same lines as the C109r or the C50).
So that will leave three motors, in 800, 1500, and 1800ccs. Each motor size will be found in three versions: an aggressively and muscularly styled "M" with Suzuki's distinctive headlight cowl; a full fendered classic "C" cruiser; and a "T" version of the "C" with windshield, saddlebags, floorboards, and other touring touches. Suzuki gets nine models out of three motors and three frames by changing the fenders, wheels, and some other bolt-on items. Great way to get the most from their development money, and a great way to consolidate production and save money by sharing as many parts between models as posible.
The C50 uses a lower compression engine designed in 2000 or so. The C50 motor is also 805ccs for marketing reasons, but shares no parts with the 805 from the Intruder. It originally had a single carb back when it was called the Volusia, when meant that the rear cylinder is backwards compared to the Intruder or Marauder 805 motors. It is physically fatter to look like a bigger displacement motor that it is, and makes power at lower RPM, and has different gearing in the tranny to match. It was updated with fuel injection when the Volusia was renamed the C50 in 2005.
The M50 uses a more blacked out version of the C50 motor developed in 2004, with different valve train, ever so slightly different heads, and different cases (not just because of the color but also because the main bearings are a different design). It uses the same fuel injection system and electronics as the C50, and power is identical. This motor goes away, and the M50 will now use the same exact motor as the C50, reducing production costs and simplifying logistics at the factory.
The C90 uses a 1500cc motor that dates to 1997, and was loosely based on the discontinued Intruder 1400/ S83 motor: air cooled with a system that pushes oil through an oil cooler and then sprays it onto the bottom of the pistons for additional cooling. Originally built with two carbs, it gained fuel injection when the name was changed from Intruder 1500LC to C90 in 2005.
The M90r uses a brand new water cooled motor, basically a scaled back version of the M109r/ C109r motor. It revs higher, has more valves, and flows more air, and makes more power then the current C90 motor. Suzuki plans to kill off the old C90 and build a new C90r, which will use the M90r motor in a more 'classic' looking, full fendered bike (along the same lines as the C109r or the C50).
So that will leave three motors, in 800, 1500, and 1800ccs. Each motor size will be found in three versions: an aggressively and muscularly styled "M" with Suzuki's distinctive headlight cowl; a full fendered classic "C" cruiser; and a "T" version of the "C" with windshield, saddlebags, floorboards, and other touring touches. Suzuki gets nine models out of three motors and three frames by changing the fenders, wheels, and some other bolt-on items. Great way to get the most from their development money, and a great way to consolidate production and save money by sharing as many parts between models as posible.
It does make sense to consolidate motors and frames. I will miss the S50 because it is such a neat retro looking bike, but I never thought of production costs being higher for the S50 because they haven't had to retool anything for 20 years. It's old and maybe a little clunky, but I like it.
Booboo the original!
New member
I always loved the VS800's style and performance, so I will miss it also. But the component costs are high from not getting the economy of scale from sharing parts, as the 400 & 600cc versions that were popular in other parts of the world have now all be discontinued (the smaller versions shared everything except the motor). People won't pay more for the model, so raising the price just isn't an option, so Suzuki makes less money off this model than they do off their other 800cc cruisers. It's had a good production run though, with tens of thousands sold in the 800 version alone.
Yeah, there would seem to be a gap in the line to compete with the 1100cc Honda and Yamaha products. Rumor had it at one point that the S50 and S83 were going to be replaced by a single model in the 1100-1200cc range, but that did not pan out. The 800cc models are nice, inexpensive entry level bikes, and the 1500 and 1800cc models make a lot more profit than smaller bikes, so I guess Suzuki does not want to spend their development money on something in between. Maybe when the economy recovers and bike sales come back around...
But maybe not. The US cruiser market only generates about 1% of Suzuki's sales worldwide, so they seem to be spending their money on new car models (87% of sales) and new small-displacement standard motorcycles for India and China (Suzuki just built a new factory to double output in India). Here in the US new cruiser models are fairly rare compared to the steady stream of new sportbiek and dirtbike models...
Yeah, there would seem to be a gap in the line to compete with the 1100cc Honda and Yamaha products. Rumor had it at one point that the S50 and S83 were going to be replaced by a single model in the 1100-1200cc range, but that did not pan out. The 800cc models are nice, inexpensive entry level bikes, and the 1500 and 1800cc models make a lot more profit than smaller bikes, so I guess Suzuki does not want to spend their development money on something in between. Maybe when the economy recovers and bike sales come back around...
But maybe not. The US cruiser market only generates about 1% of Suzuki's sales worldwide, so they seem to be spending their money on new car models (87% of sales) and new small-displacement standard motorcycles for India and China (Suzuki just built a new factory to double output in India). Here in the US new cruiser models are fairly rare compared to the steady stream of new sportbiek and dirtbike models...
DrBob, why is there a small difference in the M50 and C50 motors? Why would they have slight differences when they both make the same amount of power? I've just always wondered.
Did a little googling and finally found an article that has the M50 having a few more horses and torque than the C50 but not much.
Did a little googling and finally found an article that has the M50 having a few more horses and torque than the C50 but not much.
Stephanie Lynne
New member
That thing is a monster! Maybe when I'm tired of my C90!
TorontoBlonde
New member
The two motors are rated by Suzuki at identical HP and torque. I can find no good reason for the differences, other than the two bikes were designed years apart, and if Suzuki had to source black cases for the M50 they might as well tweek a few things they might have seen as improvements to the original design. The split main bearings are easier to install, for example.
Suzuki is sort on known for making changes for no good reason. For example, they made the following 805cc motors, many at the same time:
- VX800 US model
- VX800 European model (different cams and valvetrain)
- early VS800 Intruder (different fuel pump and electronics)
- Mid VS800 Intruder (blacked out cases and cylinders, different CGI box connectors)
- Late VS800 Intruder (different cylinder castings with mountings for fake air cleaner)
- VZ800 Marauder
- VL800 Volusia
- VL800 C50 (same as Volusia but with fuel injection)
- VZ800 M50 (changes from C50 described in post above)
So that is 9 different motors or versions of motore in 9 different models, all displacing 805ccs. Life is confusing when you are a Suzuki parts counter worker.
Suzuki is sort on known for making changes for no good reason. For example, they made the following 805cc motors, many at the same time:
- VX800 US model
- VX800 European model (different cams and valvetrain)
- early VS800 Intruder (different fuel pump and electronics)
- Mid VS800 Intruder (blacked out cases and cylinders, different CGI box connectors)
- Late VS800 Intruder (different cylinder castings with mountings for fake air cleaner)
- VZ800 Marauder
- VL800 Volusia
- VL800 C50 (same as Volusia but with fuel injection)
- VZ800 M50 (changes from C50 described in post above)
So that is 9 different motors or versions of motore in 9 different models, all displacing 805ccs. Life is confusing when you are a Suzuki parts counter worker.
freespirit12212000
New member
I had never heard of the Cavalcade so I did a search. It was a nice looking bike in my opinion, not something I would get since I like smaller bikes, but still a decent looking machine.
As far as the S50 and S83 go I'm going to miss that style of bike. Purely a personal opinion and I realize that.
As far as the S50 and S83 go I'm going to miss that style of bike. Purely a personal opinion and I realize that.
I always liked the looks of the Cavalcade also, and with a 112 HP 4-cylinder is was the most powerful touring bike around, and it came with a long list of standard features that were options on even the Goldwing. But it was a sales flop, lasting only 4 years in North America, where it sold only 7620 units total between the US and Canada - and that includes the models that lanquished in showrooms until they were dumped at a huge discount in the 2-3 years after the model was discontinued.
It was sold for a total of 5 years in Europe, but Suzuki only managed to sell a total of 284 of them in Europe in this period.
The bike was crazy expensive for the time, and back then Suzuki was known as the 'low cost' Japanese bike, so the sales just were not there. Plus it was heavier than the Venture, Voyager, and GoldWing, so I think that scared some people off.
Good bike though, with a reputatino for lasting a lot of miles as long as you take care of them. The shaft drive was an issue though- if you did not perform the maintenance on the secondary drive the drive could lock up suddenly, leading to a rear wheel skid and a crash. But as long as you did the service, everything was fine.
It was sold for a total of 5 years in Europe, but Suzuki only managed to sell a total of 284 of them in Europe in this period.
The bike was crazy expensive for the time, and back then Suzuki was known as the 'low cost' Japanese bike, so the sales just were not there. Plus it was heavier than the Venture, Voyager, and GoldWing, so I think that scared some people off.
Good bike though, with a reputatino for lasting a lot of miles as long as you take care of them. The shaft drive was an issue though- if you did not perform the maintenance on the secondary drive the drive could lock up suddenly, leading to a rear wheel skid and a crash. But as long as you did the service, everything was fine.
Backwards_Bob
New member
I was actually surprised that I liked it. There's been some ugly bikes that have come and gone over the years, but the Cavalcade is one I'd like to see up close someday.
Yeah, the Wing Aspencade and the Suzuki Cavalcade looked a LOT alike, as did the Kwasaki Voyager. The Yamaha Venture at least looked a bit distictive.
The Cavalcade had the most features and horsepower, but was also the heaviest and most expensive. It also had a safety recall for an electrical problem only months after being released, which could not have helped sales. Be it the price, the weight, the smaller dealer network, or whatever, it never even came close to being a challenger to the Goldwing. They have a hell of a cult folowing though, and still command a good price even at nearly 25 years old, though I would not choose one for serious touring due to the inability to get parts for it should it break down somewhere. You can get Electra Glide and Goldwing parts anywhere, but Cavalcade parts have to be hunted down on the Internet.
Personally, I would like to see a true touring package from Suzuki for the C109r and upcoming C90r. The current touring package is lame, with a plastic windshield, sissybar, and non-locking soft bags. I would like to see something along the lines of a Nomad, Road King, or Royal Star Tour, with locking color-matched hard bags, cruise control, an oversized stator (to power lots of accessories & heated gear), and tubeless tires. Maybe offer an accessory package with dealer installed batwing and hard trunk.
The Cavalcade had the most features and horsepower, but was also the heaviest and most expensive. It also had a safety recall for an electrical problem only months after being released, which could not have helped sales. Be it the price, the weight, the smaller dealer network, or whatever, it never even came close to being a challenger to the Goldwing. They have a hell of a cult folowing though, and still command a good price even at nearly 25 years old, though I would not choose one for serious touring due to the inability to get parts for it should it break down somewhere. You can get Electra Glide and Goldwing parts anywhere, but Cavalcade parts have to be hunted down on the Internet.
Personally, I would like to see a true touring package from Suzuki for the C109r and upcoming C90r. The current touring package is lame, with a plastic windshield, sissybar, and non-locking soft bags. I would like to see something along the lines of a Nomad, Road King, or Royal Star Tour, with locking color-matched hard bags, cruise control, an oversized stator (to power lots of accessories & heated gear), and tubeless tires. Maybe offer an accessory package with dealer installed batwing and hard trunk.