BCE Sells Telesat; New BEV Nimiq 5 to be at 72.5!

  • Thread starter Thread starter diogen
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Ok... so I am near central Manitoba.

If I got a second dish that was larger could I receive this "Eastern Canada" only programming....

I don't really understand this stuff..

But does this mean I may have to upgrade my Dish in the future...
 
Telsat satellite strategy for the next 10 years including plans to put Nimiq 4/5 into orbit were published
a month ago (just Telsat ownership was in limbo at that time).

Some tidbits from this report:
-Nimiq4 to launch in 2008 into 82* (where Nimiq 3/2 are today).
-Nimiq5 to launch in 2010 into 72.7*
-three 17GHz satellites to be launched in 2012/14/16 into 72.5*/82*/86.5*
-BEV expressed interest in all of them
-the expectations are that switching to MPEG-4/AVC will allow 4-6 HD channels per transponder
-by 2008 1/3 to 1/2 should be HD (Nimiq 4), by 2010 - 3/4 (Nimiq 5), by 2015 - 100% is expected to be HD.

Switch to 17GHz (post-2012) would require new LNBF's and will probably work with smaller dishes.
Those dishes' footprint is Canada-oriented, i.e. no BEV service in Florida and California.

Diogen.
 
FSS satellites (Ku and C band like the Aniks) are required to operate at 1.9 degrees spacing in the orbital arc. This is a comprimise between the number of available slots and signal interference between adjacent satellites. BSS satellites (Like the Nimiqs) operate at 9 degree spacing, mainly because they operate at higher power and are intended to be used with small antennas.

The size of the antenna is both an issue in terms of receive signal gain, but also beam width. The smaller an antenna is, the wider the beamwidth.

The station keeping box is actually about 10 km x 10 km.

Orbital positions are regulated and distributed via the ITU. Industry Canada is the federal body responsible for allocating licensing for the Canadian slots. There is currently licensing process underway in which IC was planning on allocating about 29 licenses across several postions and frequency bands. Telesat, Ciel and Canadian Satellite Radio have all applied for certain licenses. There are certain licensing fees both for the satellites and the transmitting earth station which must be paid to IC. I've heard that in the US, the FCC auctions off the positions the same way they do with spectrum, but I have never bothered to confirm that.

But basically, no you can't really "purchase" orbital space. Probably the closest you could come is to lease space segment on a satellite or perhaps even a full transponder. But considering that a FSS Ku band transponder would probably run you in excess of $200K per month, that's a bit beyond what the general public could afford.
 
Yeah they figure:

More Channels = More $$$$

which is true. But people who want "real" HD, they will leave.

HD is amazing, What will they call it. Its not "high" definition anymore.

Maybe sub-par HD, or MD, medium definition.

This depresses me :(
 
2015 - 100% expected to be HD.

Does this mean we could see full HD for everything service....
 
For the record 72 degrees is viewable even in Victoria BC. I know people with C Band dishes that can even get Panamsat at 58 degrees from there. Granted there will be people near the mountains who won't see the new slot just like there are some who can't see any of BEV's birds right now so the new slot will have little impact on most current subs. Besides, the lower the birds are on the horizon, the closer they appear together from your point of view so to a westerner in BC 72 degrees is almost right next to 82.
 
Don't laugh. In the US, HDNet runs Hogan's Heroes in HiDef. They must have remastered from the film originals. Virtually all mainstream TV programs from the late 1950s through the 1970s were shot on film. Hey! We might even see what Batman saw in Robin's tights ....:eek:
 
Look at the big picture.
About 10% of Canadians have HDTV sets. About half of them know what HD is and have the "WOW!" period behind them (you are one of them).
This 5% wants ever better quality of the stream and ever better content.
Even if only half of the rest cares what HD is and wants to experience it - it's 10 times more than people like you.
Now, what is easier for BEV (in terms of $$$): keep you as a customer or sell the "We have the most HD" spiel to a 10 times bigger crowd?

When half the population is like you, you'll get a chance to be listened to.

Diogen.
 
That is the way I understand it.
But if they go with 6 HD channels per transponder, it'd be really hard to keep the quality at even today's sometimes mediocre level.
It would be something between today's SD and HD.

Diogen.
 
So it wouldn't be "true" HD..

So they expect everyone will have HD, tv's in 2015....

Or will they have HD receivers for everything....

Because with my 9200 TV2 output on a SD tv, I can watch HD shows on the SD tv but they are just SD...

It'd be interesting how that would work

8 years, and they expect 100% HD....
 
But the closer the angle to the horizon, the greater the risk of atmospheric disturbance of the signal.
 
Found this link posted on another site. I'm not sure of its origin but it has a fair bit of detail as to Bell and Telesat's long term satellite plans. Those that think Bell is only interested in IPTV going forward should read this.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:ktBedjKNDSkJ:strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/insmt-gst.nsf/vwapj/Telesat-Licence%25206%2520Canadian%2520Sat%2520Capacity%2520%26%2520Service%2520Plans%2520Nov%252015%25202pm.pdf/%24FILE/Telesat-Licence%25206%2520Canadian%2520Sat%2520Capacity%2520%26%2520Service%2520Plans%2520Nov%252015%25202pm.pdf=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8



-Mike
 
Don't be depressed. MPEG-4, if correctly implemented, renders a picture and sound the equal (or better?) than MPEG-2, the current standard. The switch from QPSK to 8PSK modulation adds further effective bandwidth per transponder. Successfully implemented, twice the channels can be delivered using the same effective bandwidth. But there are risks.

Your Bell HD channels -- like HDNet -- currently max out at two channels per transponder. There are 29 active transponders on Nimiq 2 -- offering all the HD signals and, I believe, all the "special programming" channels (that is, "International" channels). There is nothing else on Nimiq 2 Bell couldn't move to Nimiq 1 or drop altogether -- extra Galaxie Digital music channels, a few time-shifting feeds and a few miscellaneous channels that could be moved.

Bell's challenge is moving selected stations to MPEG-4 and dropping them from MPEG-2 without losing customers -- since the customers will have to swap out their HD and HDPVR boxes to continue to receive these channels. For everyone else the migrated MPEG-2 to MPEG-4 channels will go black. Bell has NO capacity to offer any of these in BOTH MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 simultaneously.

My guess? Dump the HiFidelity channels and French channels to MPEG-4 first and, maybe, one or two premium channels, like HDNet. 2007 is the year of transition, according to senior Bell management: it might be an interesting year.
 
In the document I linked to above, I think it says BEV commited to all the capacity of Nimiq 4 and 5 (including the 8 Ka transponders on 5) but not on the 17GHz birds.

Diogen.
 
From the now banned workfrombell's knowledge:

Its happening 4th quarter 2007. Nov-Dec 07.

Now workforbell is in middle management and is in some power in BEV.

They are replacing ALL the HD receivers FOR FREE. I trust his knowledge and he said he personally saw the orders made to Echostar and nobody will pay a cent to BEV for MPEG4 update.

Nimiq2 provides:

HD
Ethnic / International
A few small market digital standards (Thunder Bay, Kenora, Medicine Hat, etc.)
Some other variety stuff.

So my question is when MPEG4 goes out will all these people with ethnic programming need to be updated. Meaning all of Nimiq2 programming will be MPEG4...?!?

That is alot, can they just limit it to HD transponders only for MPEG4 and still have some normal MPEG2 ethnic programming on Nimiq2?

This looks like an interesting year for BEV. They are expecting 60-100 new HD channels within 2 years.

So much for the $10 fee!! Their will be HD theme packs.

Side topic: Can BEV stop forcing people to subscribe to the digital standard if they get HD. I mean their is CBC HD, CTV Toronto HD, CTV Vancouver HD, Citytv HD, Global HD, SRC HD.

Can they have a HD Digital Standard, and never make us even bother having the digital standard anymore?
 
That's a probably pretty close to the truth. They're not going to waste a limited resource proviing the absolute highest quality video when only a very small percentage of their customers would notice the difference.

Ciel's estimates of 4 HD channels/tp sound like they're based on using mpeg4 and QPSK. Telesat's estimates of 6 channels/tp are probably based on mpeg4 and 8psk.

Getting back to the thread topic though, I don't think the Telesat sale (perhaps reverse takeover might be a bit more accurate) won't affect BEV significantly. For the company as a whole I think it will be a very good move.
 
Yes. The video and audio streams are encoded at either mpeg2 or 4. Typically the bit streams are then multiplexed together and then modulated (using most likely the DVB-S standard) at QPSK. One fo the newer technologies coming to the forefront is the DVB-S2 standard which provides a more efficient use of the available bandwidth (I have a feeling that when people are talking about the switch to 8PSK they're actually referring to DVB-S2)



Unfortunately, I have a feeling that the CRTC may prevent that for quite some time. That's simply my own speculation though.
 
For the sake of argument, suppose HD receivers cost Bell $250 and HD PVRs cost them $500. None of them can play MPEG-4 streams. If Bell has to replace, suppose, 150,000 in six months ... that could easily be $50 million out of pocket for the hardware, to say nothing of the costs of customers phoning in, sending installers and couriers, etc. And that's assuming Bell can wave a magic wand and produce 150,000 boxes in the warehouse. It is a logistical challenge of huge proportions.



Yes. Every single existing receiver which wants to continue to deliver the migrated MPEG-4 channels.



Wanna bet on the 100 NEW channels by end of 2008? And, yes, one way or the other, HD customers will pay for some/all of the technology upgrades. Bell ExpressVu has stopped being a charity.



Basically, no. Digital Standard is made up of channels the CRTC says they must carry and channels Bell can carry at almost no cost. Each of the "1" Theme packs -- Family, News & Learning, Variety, Sports, etc. are also filled with "original" specialty channels which have strict carriage rights. That's why virtually none of those channels can be bought individually.

Without belabouring the point, the approx $50 entry fee for TV service represents Digital Standard and the five Bell "1" Theme Packs -- or Shaw's Basic + Tier channels or Rogers, etc; that's about 70 channels or 100ish with (free) Canadian time-shifting. After that point, the CRTC leaves it to the market: buy one or more at your pleasure. The exception is Movie Central and TMN and their related channels which are "pay tv" and operate in a bubble of their own.

HD sits on top of all of this. Essentially, after the $50 cost of entry, that's when you have influence on what HD channels to pay for and lobby for. This is equally true for satellite and cable in Canada. Bell Expressvu, for what's worth, will never have access to the US satellite market due to long-standing "free trade" agreements between Canada and the US government "cultural" industries.
 
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