Backup problem on T3 with Java/MIDP2 installed

G

Gino Echevarria

New member
(Apologies if this has previously come up - I did a 'quick' search, but didn't see it...)

I replaced my m515 with a T3 a couple of weeks ago, and I am now having an odd problem.

After downloading the updates from Palm, I installed (among other things) the MIDP2 files to play with. I do a considerable amount of Java programming and was curious.

While the things I've written work fine, I am having a backup problem. Both on the 'normal' win32 desktop (using the 'standard' palm app), and on Linux using either Kpilot or Jpilot, the backup hangs in the middle of the J9 MIDP Bundle.

SO I decided to do another download just to check - byte-for-byte identical, and after the reinstall (OK, the 5th re-install even) the results are the same. If I delete the IBM java engine and all of the MIDP2 components, etc., the backup goes fine; if I do not, it invariably hangs in the same place.

I did several other tests to determine that it isn't (a) a file size problm, (b) a USB port problem, or (c) a cradle/cable problem, but with no luck (haven't tried a serial backup yet) -- backing up anything else works fine, but not the J9 files named above. Results are the same even if I do a warm boot (hold shift up and reboot) to keep everything from loading at boot.

BackupBuddyVFS works fine, though and it backs up everything without a whimper.

Has this been seen before, and if so has anyone come up with a solution?

No flames please - I'm having a bad week and it's still only Monday :-/

Thanks,
Merlin
 
I haven't had a problem with HotSync (I'm assuming that is what you mean by PC Backup), but I have had problems restoring the java programs from a card backup. Whenever I have to restore from a hard reset, the restore fails on the MIDP files, and I have to reinstall them from the desktop. This may actually be a problem with the files not backing up properly in the card backup program, though. I hadn't thought about that before, I just assumed there was a problem restoring them. . .

I'm sorry I can't be of more help. I will have to check into it some more and see if it's a problem backing up the files on the card, or if it's a problem restoring them.

One thing you might want to try is deleting the files from your backup directory on the Windows machine. If the original files are corrupt, and are still sitting in your backup directory, that might be part of the problem with completing your HotSync properly.
 
Hmm. I had fogotten to mention this -- early on I had exactly the same problem until I UNinstalled another app - and IIRC it was the SuperWaba SDK. Until I deleted it, I could back up to the card using BackupBuddyVFS, but would get errors restoring 2 of the MIDP files (I don't remember which 2, however). Every time I did a hard reset I would have to re-install the MIDP2 stuff from scratch.

I don't think it's a matter of a corrupted backup file (or files) since the files on both Windows AND Linux (using 2 different backup tools, Jpilot and Kpilot - maintaining 2 different backup directory hierarchies) are all identical byte for byte (same md5checksum, etc.)

However, I do wonder: it is *highly* unlikely that something in the data in a couple of the files is somehow interfering *identically* with 3 different backup programs on 2 different operating systems. This morning, I managed to find someone at work who has a T3 - we tried the backup from his T3 (he did not previously have the MIDP stuff installed) and it hung at the same point - though to be honest we only tried 2 of the 3 external backup programs. We were not able to try doing a hard reset of his T3, putting my SD card in the T3 and restoring from there ... something about not wanting to risk all of his files and data ... :-)

Thanks for the reply, though.

BTW, I note that Sun has a MIDP2 download listed on their site, but the link doesn't point anywhere (and hence fails). Has anyone tried it, and if so does it work ? I'm just wondering whether I have a second option on this one.

Thanks,
Merlin
 
I've been wondering about this stuff for months.

1. Are you referring to the Java "WebSphere" Environment I supposedly needed to run JPluck? The new JPluck/"Plucker" version is "Sunrise," and although IT IS JAVA, does not require that the Java apps be intalled on the Palm. I noticed "SuperWaba and recognize that app DOES require it.

2. BackupBuddy VFS is known for NOT properly restoring certain files; some are related to security apps (TealLock) . . . jkware's CardBackup will restore those files, so I'd be curious if it worked with these suspect Java ones too. You might try it and see - I used BBVFS for 2 years but dropped it for CardBackup.

3. Is having the Java stuff worth it and are there additional advantages to having it? I know YOU ARE AN ACTUAL "PROGRAMMER."

I am not. I would be looking for Java apps that would give me more "business efficiency," and these apps would be in FLASH so I wouldn't need to back them up to card at all (could not, in fact, if I wanted to). THIS MAY BE another solution for you from someone who knows NOTHING about Java . . . use jackSprat/Flash and load your "problem" apps in flash (prc's only, no databases)! They would come back after hard reset and without taking up space on your SD Card. When I downloaded and installed the java apps I ran them in flash along with JPluck/Plucker, and did not have any CardBackup problems or HotSync "hanging" issues.

This subject is FASCINATING to me as I'll be keeping the T3 and not going to Cobalt . . . I've posted before asking questions on this topic with ZERO responses - you two are the first I've seen that are even using it. I'd sure like to know more, and all I can actually "offer" to this thread at this time is the fact that BBVFS while popular among some forum users, has got SERIOUS cracks and I wouldn't trust it after a failed restore I had. I've never had a problem using CardBackup and JackFlash/JackSafe.

As for the hotsync "hanging" you're worlds beyond me - sorry.
 
Answering by number:

1. Yes, the Java Websphere S/W downloaded from http://www.palmone.com/us/support/tungstent3/ under the heading "Java? Technology for your palmOne Device" (the actual link being http://www.palmone.com/us/support/downloads/versamail/versamail26_notes.html").

2. Interesting about BBVFS failures - I had used it for a couple of years (+/-) without ever having a problem on my m515 (one that I was aware of, anyway). So I had never looked for another card backup program..,

3. "Is having the Java stuff worth it and are there additional advantages to having it?" Good question. Unfortunately, the answer is a little like (for instance) what is the "best" text editor - there are lots of opinions, each with lots of facts to back it up, but lots of subjective, personal reasons and qualifiers to determine each individual's answer.

Having stipulated the above, I had a few java apps (OK, 2) which I ran on my m515 that were useful *to me*. Somebody else might have said they were not useful. To him. Additional advantages? Hard to say. Among other things, I write java code, and having the java environment there would be half "fun" (hmmm. can I make it do ...) and half "useful" (best tool for the job at lowest cost/greatest efficiency) to me. There are probably apps available already to do many/most/almost all of the things I might do myself. Personal choice and so forth. If I were just using my TT3 for non-technical, traditional business activities (contacts, bringing documents along, datebook, etc.), then probably not ... at least not until next week when the newest, hottest app comes along which won't run without it and which I ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE TO SURVIVE IN BUSINESS.

It's a little like a horse race - everyone knows that one horse will run faster than the others ... but which one?

So yes, it would be worth it *to me*; but I can't say for anyone else. Sorry.

BTW, I used to use flashPro to put apps in flash on my m515, but although I have jackFlash, there isn't enough room on my TT3 without deleting languages/apps from flash (jackSprat) to make it really useful -- and I already have my personal favorites in flash using up most of it -- so I won't be trying to put (for instance) the MIDP2 stuff there for a while... Plus I don't really want to delete the languages yet.

Hope that gives you at least part of an answer to your questions ... :-)

- Merlin
 
PTL -

1. Yes, this is the Java WebSphere download available from PalmOne.

2. Actually, I do use CardBackup. As well as BackupBuddyVFS and BackupMan. MIDP breaks 'em all. Yes, I know it sounds paranoid to have three backup programs, and take up that much space on an SD card, but I work with so many different types of data, and have to maintain so many databases with my T3, that if I didn't have a backup, I'd be toast. Don't want to lose my job because a backup program failed on me.

3. There are some programs that require you to have the Java files installed to run properly. If you don't need them for anything you currently use, don't bother with them.

merlin - I don't have SuperWaba installed, but I have before. I will have to make sure there are no remnants of that left over on my T3. Thank you for the tip.

As far as HotSync hanging, I am now more experienced with that problem than I was this morning when I initially answered your post. I can't speak to JPilot or KPilot, as I work in a predominantly Windows environment. After having to do a hard reset and restore, and not being able to restore the java files from a card backup, I had to reinstall them with a HotSync. I had to download the MIDP files three different times, and eventually find a good copy in an archive from the last time I reinstalled them. The three downloads I ran were all corrupt, and made the Sync hang. I would question the integrity of the MIDP files you have downloaded.

I removed the offending J9_Java_Launcher and Java_VM_Bundle files from my backup directory for Palm Desktop, and then reinstalled them from my known good download of them (the download I used last time I had to reinstall them). That finally worked to get it back up and running.
 
Backing up the Java runtime is a known issue. I found this on palmOne's 'knowledge library' site:
Solution ID: 30900

Tips: Java J2ME (MIDP 2.0) must be reinstalled after a hard reset

Due to limitations in the HotSync(r) Manager, the Java runtime components are not backed up as part of the HotSync process. If you perform a hard reset on your device, you must reinstall Java J2ME (MIDP 2.0). Download Java J2ME MIDP 2.0 here.
 
Just a thought - one solution might be run the Java stuff in flash, if you were so inclined. It might be worth the hassle if Java is that important to you, and sounds like it is.

I know when I download the Java Environment/J9 (2 files as I recall) a slammed 'em in flash to "test them," and they went in fine.

I did NOT perform a hard reset and have them come back though - so I can't speak with authority on having had them "restore."

I have done several hard resets and had "flashed" apps come back thanks to JackSafe, but NOT the Java apps. They were deleted prior to the hard reset "testing." Might be worth a try since a failure away from the PC would otherwise leave you without the Java stuff.
 
Oh GEEZ!! my head is spinning. I am trying so hard to following this thread because my BRAND NEW (tonight) t-E is frozen on J9 JAVA and it's been driving me crazy for over an hour!!! it's a mess!

I don't understand if I need to reinstall it and get it from somewhere else? or what? and how do I know if I really need it or not? What programs would I have that would need it right now?

Argh! help- I am not as knowledgeable as you all are and I need a bit of talk thru... please :)

I know this is my subject (I started a thread about this a few minutes ago), but I missed it the first time around!
 
merlin: kpilot uses pilot-link, so how well kpilot performs depends on pilot-link. There are issues on the T3 that are only resolved in pilot-link 0.12, which isn't out yet (I'm using a pre-release version straight from CVS). As far as I can find out the problem is related to exactly that hotsync manager issue objectguy mentioned. The new pilot-link will detect this and skip the app, instead of getting an USB transfer error (which can be observed as a hang followed by a timeout failure). BTW, you can run pilot-link directly with pilot-xfer --backup

I've seen the problem occuring on NetLib, btw.

I'm not sure if jpilot uses pilot-link directly, but if it doesn't it certainly just re-implemented the functionality by looking at pilot-link (the pilot-link guys are the ones that did all the hard work of figuring out the protocol - it's not documented) and would suffer from the same problem.

tor
 
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