Atheists, have you ever had a discussion/debate with a "holy" leader?

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Can you describe it?

How did it go?

Sometimes I don't want to talk to these people because supposing I win the argument, I'll feel bad for showing them their profession is a waste. Secondly it might be a waste for me to try to reason with someone as .. *ahem* spiritual.... as them.

I'm excited for answers.
4th answerer,

I not going to go into specific examples, (that would take too long) but if I trapped them in a logical fallacy which there were no apologetic cop-out then that's what I was referring to.

Again the key word is "supposing."

You'll find a lot of these logical arguments all around the internet.
 
Yes, but it wasn't proving right and wrong. My pastor freely admits that some of his takes on the text of the Bible are opinion, we can choose whether or not to believe his views or to take our own, the only absolute truths are the words themselves.
 
Nope. I'd like to though.

Don't worry about winning though and breaking their faith. When they say that they really believe, they really mean it. The odds of you breaking their faith in god is less than 100:1.

I'd suggest not going into it with that objective anyway. I'd want to learn more about that frame of mind.
 
A number of times.
They always go the same way.
I poke holes in the (in most cases) christans beliefs, and they fall back to the default position of the bible says it's true and they have faith, even when I've given them sound logical arguments to the contrary.
It's at that point that I just accept they can't acknowledge the logic, and move on.
 
1- the bible is bullshit, a bunch of opinions on law throwen in a book and called a way to go to heaven
2- most christains have a lower iq to athists
3-most people are into good morals not religion
,religion is a fast way to good morals
4- religion creates war and racism
5- if religion is so good why does it express so much evil
 
Yes I have, as also with racists, bigamists, and sexists.

they're all the same and the argument usually consist of meaningless trivial things that they will obviously blow way outta proportion. I have never won an argument with them. ever. and I never plan to win one because a true religious/racist/ignorant person will never be deterred by fact despite how overwhelming the proof is.
 
I'm not an atheist, but arguing with another person about his beliefs is wrong. Yes, I have argued with them, but in the end I apologized to them after all that. I do not want to hold guilt and make myself suffer.
 
Actually I welcome religious discussion all the time. If someone can convince me of their beliefs then I've been believing the wrong thing, if they don't convince me they make my own beliefs stronger.

I've discussed my belief with monks of other Buddhist sects, 2 rabbis, countless priests of various Christian denominations as well as a number of Gray Nuns, a Wiccan High Priestess and a lay leader in a Mosque. I also invite in Mormons and JW who knock on my door but only if they're willing to listen to my beliefs as well. Mormons always come in and listen, JW run away.

The discussions always go well. Some have conceded that they can not sway me on logic alone and none have tried "believe it because I said so". They've all commented that I'm well read, a good listener and open minded. Many have asked for more information about my own beliefs to understand it better. They only people that I don't enjoy having these discussions with are Pentecostals and they are the most fundamentalist group of folk I've had such discussions with.

NOTE: The "highest" up leader I've discussed religion with is a former Archbishop Metropolitan of the Anglican Church of Canada. (Metropolitan is a bishop for a LARGE area). He's a friend of my parents and a very nice man, he is also very open minded and accepts our difference of opinion.
 
If you talk to them long enough, all their answers will just come down to, "You just have to have faith!" No leg to stand on whatsoever.
 
bear with me and read

I haven't but my dad did, he got into a bad wreak messed him up bad, broken ribs crushed organs all that. But he crawled to the side of the road and flagged some one down. When the preacher asked my dad don't you think you owe god something, my dad said what do you mean. Preacher says well you crawled such and such a distance to flag some one down....my dad says don't you think god had something to do with me being there in the first place. I think we are even.

Which if god causes all things is true.
 
"Supposing you will win the argument" you say??? Only if they're an idiot. Most "holy leaders" are educated and could wipe the floor out most people when it comes to philosophy. You don't get to leadership and scholarship by being stupid.


And if you're not afraid of muslim's holy leader (though there are none - until Jesus comes back)... then go to the quran.
 
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