Ask, Tell.

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I agree. Equal rights are good.

So I take it now "Homosexual" will be removed from a "protected class" and can not be used as a "hate crime"?

Many people confuse "equal rights" with "special rights".
 
I think it has more to do with being able to be who you are and not have to hide it, kind of how heterosexuality doesn't have to be hidden.
 
If the democrat party had the influence and power it proclaims itself to have, with the number of voters behind, you would think that a significant piece of legislation would have passed. But it hasn't, it's lip service. It's
"vote for us because we care for you, but we really don't care for your bullshit because we are as bigoted as the republicans are".

But instead, they are fighting to reverse legislation enacted by a democrat president, meanwhile the civil rights they really want are thrown onto the back burner in order to expend their energy on an issue that is irrelevant, considering EVERYONE'S civil rights are violated in the military.

Furthermore, how does openly serving as gay in the military strengthen their cause? It doesn't. It makes people uncomfortable, and in cases of sexual contact, it violates military code of conduct.

This whole exercise is like masturbation, it feels good while doing it, but it's pointless in the end.
 
I agree. The military will collapse immediately if this is done too fast, just like it collapse with desegregation and allowing women.
 
Ok, try this on for size. Why do gays insist on a marriage, which is a religious event, which the government co-opted and could be easily solved by the state/s recognizing a gay civil union, a heterosexual civil union and allow the term "Marriage" to again be relegated back to the Churches and religions?

Too easy?
 
Again, I happen to believe moving away from the ban on gays is a good idea and vcertain to happen sooner or later. My only concern is that it isn't done in a haphazard manner. Sadly, we are involved in wars that stretch the military resources. Putting more stress on that situation may not make sense. That's why I would look to the military brass to find the solution, particularly since they are onside to it.
 
1.It has passed. Show me where that Democrats are bigoted towards the gay population in regard to DADT??

2. What civil rights are thrown on the back burner? Yes it is a repeal to Clintons DADT policy, only because at that time DADT was the only compromise that could be devised to allow gays to serve in the military to a certain degree.

I dont see how finally letting someone be honest about who they are not hinder their performance/eligibility of their job in military? For some ignorant reason you believe that just because DADT was repealed gays in the military are going to throw a big gay sparkly parade and prance around telling everyone how awesomely gay they are?? The real reason it was overturned was because excellent men and women in the armed forces were being kicked out and dishonorably discharged for being found out or suspected of being homosexual. Even though it had no affect on their job.

3. If your uncomfortable that someone is gay than gtfo. In life you dont always have the chance to choose who u work with. Do your job and carry on like anyone else who works with someone they might not like. Be an adult and grow the fuck up.
 
1. A soldier is on leave. He goes to a bar and makes out with a girl. His superior officer happens to witness it from across the room.

2. A soldier is on leave. He goes to a bar and makes out with a guy. His superior officer happens to witness it from across the room.

One of these two scenarios can eventually lead to his expulsion from the armed forces. Are you OK with this?
 
I don't advocate asking them if they want to do anything. I advocate letting them figure out the timetable. Part of my reasoning is the senior brass has made it clear they support repealing DADT. I'm comfortable that they will do things in the best possible manner, at the best possible speed. My opinion might be different if there was opposition.
 
Thats like saying why should atheists be allowed to marry when its a religious event??

Its because its their right as American citizens to be able to be recognized as a civil union between two people who love each other. i honestly dont care about whatever term is used for it.

Why are you so butthurt that u care so much to not let someone else do what they please when it has no affect on you whatsoever? I hate how people say " its a disrespect to the sanctity of marriage." Than why the fuck is Divorce legal in america???? if anything thats the biggest slap in the face to marriage.

Dude troll on. I'm sorry that your good ol' boy logic is left behind in the past where it belongs
 
Sounds like they are putting it in the hands of the military brass... instead of tying their hands by having a law forcing the military to drum out gays if they find them.

So, yay?
 
In the Canadian Forces gays/women can do whatever they want, women can and do serve in the infantry/combat arms and women have died in battle in Afghanistan and I assume a gays have done the same. They have been allowed to do so since the early 80s.

That being said, I've noticed a lot of fallacious arguments in these DADT threads. Everybody who is against repelling it seems to think that gays will start parading around waving rainbow flags and organizing orgies in the barracks. I question the logic behind this argument. I've served 3 years so far, including in the infantry, and among the hundreds I've worked with I've only met one openly gay person (he couldn't have hidden it even if he wanted to), and guess what? He was still a soldier, he was still bound by military and civilian law. This includes DEPORTMENT, the way you act, the way you carry yourself, the way you speak to others, and he was just as liable for that as the rest of us. Nobody's going to go around advertising it. Thats enough to police most combat support and combat service support soldiers (all the non doorkickers). Just like I wont go into the women's quarters and start buttraping everything that moves, they wont harrass their male counterparts because the consequences are a lot graver in the military than in civilian life.

Combat arms units are even more capable of policing themselves. There is a lot of macho-ness, self-confidence and even cockiness within these units. After all, when it comes down to it, do you civilians want soldiers who think they CANT kick any enemy's ass, who dont WANT to face him and mess him up when the proverbial Chinese horde comes into your neighborhood? It takes a certain personality to willingly join the infantry/combat arms, and this personality, as far as I've seen is quite similar regardless of race, sex, gender, intelligence level, socioeconomic background, education level, age or sexual orientation. I dont know about US Army/Marine Corps infantry training, but up here it still weeds out the weaklings, and if a woman who would get pregnant to get out of a tour makes it into a combat arms unit, then that is the fault of the training system. All this stuff about having sex in the field (in a combat arms unit) is just ridiculous, after just 5 days of absolutely no sleep, no showers, field rations and all that, the only thing thats sexy is a warm meal, a cold beer and your bed, and yes, I've been to the field with some fairly attractive women.

HOWEVER, and its a big however, like I said up here this happened in the 80s when absolutely nothing was going on for us. This is not the sort of transformation that should take place during a time of war, because it will be rough and may compromise morale of the troops doing the fighting. You dont like that argument? Too bad, pound sand. Just like the military exists to support and defend society, most soldiers/sailors/airmen are involved, however indirectly, in supporting the combat arms, and ultimately, the infantry, who kill the enemy, take the ground and hold it, so if the infantrymen dont like, you dont do it, because in the end we're all here to help them do the real work, its that simple. Sure, during peace time you can tell them to suck it up, buttercup, but doing that in wartime is almost criminal. They can repell DADT all they want, in practice nothing will change because of this, and it will ultimately make the transition even more difficult.
 
I don't really disagree here, I just cannot help but wonder what unspoken resistance to the idea might work its way into such a timetable. If it's a reasonable timetable, with realistic goals, then sure. We still need to vigilant though, because our military is a tool that is only as effective as we make it.
 
This is the same bullshit that people have said about Women and Minority's in the past wanting to serve in the military. Straight ignorance and predjudice.

The military hasn't fallen apart yet with women and minority's working and leading troops into battle. I doubt openly gay people will drastically change anything.
 
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