Are kids turning away from animation?

When I want quality mature animation, I'm not just talking action shows. I want works as philosophical as Waking Life or as creative as The Triplets of Belleville.
 
Ok, I WAS going to respond late last night, but got a terrible headache, so decided not to.

This peer pressure thing you speak of. Um...guys? Peer Pressure has been going on since Og the Caveman started fighting with another from the tribe- it's been going on since Day 1.

Y'need proof? Of all you cartoon fans, how many collect the ACTION FIGURES for the property? OR, are those action figures just "stupid little kiddy things"?

Y'see, I had a similar discussion about this very type of topic just a few short years ago, an an about.com forum, regarding, well, action figures. I never understood just HOW people could lose interest in those wonderful toys, as I never did.

As for Cartoon Network's ratings. I never said cartoons were TOTALLY dead- I just said they're not the "thing" of the current generation. They still have a NICHE market though- just like action figures do, even among collectors.

Besides, you guys are even saying how Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, and Disney "aren't what they used to be" just to compete with each other for kid ratings. YOU SAID IT YOURSELVES.

Oh sure- we had VHS and Nintendo, but it really never reached the platitude of importance that it has now. Remember- when WE started the video game boom, it was RE-starting, after having initially crashed and burned. Who knows where it would've been in the '80s, regarding our childhoods, had Atari and Intellivision, known what they were doing? :)

Yes, I'm aware that cartoons aren't being created now to last, as they were a while back- even J. Michael Straczynski commented on that a bit in the latest issue of ToyFare( in which one of my letters also got accidentally published btw- the one about Mr. Wizard). But that was a different time for cartoons- the internet and video games DID NOT have the impact on youth at the time that they have now.

I just...don't know how to stress this enough to you. I seriously feel like I'm talking to my grandparents right now..and trying to explain how things change to THEM.....
 
To cover the topic first. Again the successes of other mediums shouldn't really be a problem for cartoons. Again, use other mediums to promote cartoons. Which I'll again list how:

Cartoon Network
- Air any available cartoon that ties into a movie.
- Video Games are the main thing? Acquire a cartoon based on a hit video game. Or greenlight the production of a cartoon based off a video game. Surely a series based off The Legend Of Zelda or Metroid would be a ratings grabber for Toonami.

Disney Channel
- Their sitcom actors (Ashley Tisdale, Will Friedle, Kyle Massey, Amy Bruckner, Raven Symone) have done voice work on a Disney Channel cartoon. So why not have them host a marathon of cartoons they've done voice work for? Even those who dismiss cartoons are known to watch them if their favorite actor/actress voices a character.



I did recently obtain all of those Mario toys from McDonalds though. Yeah, they aren't action figures, but they're toys. I would have made an effort to get the TMNT toys from McDonalds as well, but they've been through some figures by the time I found out. Even won a stuffed Spider-Man a few years back

I do collect comics though which carry the same stigma as toys and cartoons. And I have no problem with letting anyone know about my interests. So as you can see, anything I do collect is my own personal choice. I bet you feel foolish for asking "OR, are those action figures just stupid little kiddy things"?



Actually I've stated that Nickelodeon has remained true to their roots. They were a kids network then, they're a kids network now. Only problem they have is poor scheduling and lack of patience. The other networks on the other hand

Cartoon Network
Past- Animation channel for all ages.
Present- Nickelodeon Two.

Disney Channel
Past- Channel for the whole family (All ages and gender).
Present- Pretty much The Fashion Industry Channel.



If you're so sure of your comment being a fact, then you can't pick and choose which comments to respond to. You respond to all opposing comments. That's why I'm retyping some of my previous comments (such as the video game toon suggestion).
 
I think right now there is an opening for a good, well-written animated show that appeals to a wide audience to be shown on ABC or Fox. It could potentially have the type of impact that The Flintstones had in the 1960's and The Simpsons did in the late 1980's to mid 1990's.

By the way, if the animation studios are willing to do 2-D animation using computers, companies like Rainbow Srl and Marathon show it can be done at reasonable cost and relatively low time for production (no need to ship off to Asia for cel artists to draw the animation).
 
If there's one thing I learned at art school, that pretty much explains everything, is that American animators have a union. So there's no such thing as reasonable cost.
That's why Japan's most expensive animated movie is $30 million, while ours goes over $100 million. They don't have a union so they can work for cheap. We refuse to work cheap. That's one of (if not the) reasons why we export our animation overseas.
 
Family Guy, Futurama, and Avatar all cost about the same to make, though.

Technically Steamboy cost 22 Million to make, unless it's no longer the most expensive Japanese animated film anymore.
 
But there can be a such thing as a reasonable cost. A Scanner Darkly only cost $6 million to make. Billy Plympton's films often cost less than a million.
 
Off topic, but I feel kid's action figures range from pretty good (Playmates TMNT line) to crap (Mattel's One Piece Line). Personally, I see more kids buying imported Japanese box figures, or stuff by MacFarline or NECA nowadays. But they seem in between 12 and 15.

But, lemme just bring back the main problem. I still think tweenage girls have a stake in it. I blame Britney Spears back in the 90's, starting the "Baby Doll slut" trened that sadly goes on today. I.E. Bratz dolls outselling Barbie, causing Barbie to become a babydoll slut. Same thing happening with TV.
 
I think it'd be a bit hard for Cory in the House, Drake and Josh, iCarly, and Hannah Montana to do so well if only girls were watching them. Guys also like the shows too, you know. I don't see why you're blaming girls for anything. Those shows don't even have any "baby doll slut" elements in them at all.
 
They're the shows that are "replacing" kids animation, though. If the "baby doll slut" image is brushing away animation in favor of LA shows/shows with the themes kids like, then these shows are logically the ones that are doing the "brushing".
 
Hmmm, you're right. Though honestly, stuff like Hannah Montanna and Cheeta girls have mostly girl viewers. Why the shell are boys watching them? Do they have a crush on miss Cyrus or something?

I still say the fact that most cartoons now are fake, mechanical, inorganic, and just plain unwatchable and slapped together is the main problem. I mean, remember what drove people from traditional sitcoms? The most popular shows were getting cancelled, some all in a row (Frasier and Friends ended the same season, Will and Garce ended a bit after that), while the rest of the sitcoms airing were variations on a theme, nothing new, and nothing that hasn't been done before better. People loved watching reruns of older sitcoms, but not the newer ones, and reality TV became big.

Of course, with reality TV it was another story. This can be said for animation too. Studios were cranking reality shows out, while the variety of other types of shows dwindled. They pretty much became popular by default. Same with the live action shows. If there was more variety with animation, kids wouldn't be leaving it.
 
Did you watch TGIF? Most of those shows were the same kind of thing, and I watched them devotedly. I can get where kids are coming from but I can't understand why it's all they want.

Thing is, except for Dinosaurs I wouldn't be able to make it through those shows now. It IS possible to make a show that you won't be embarrassed to have watched as a kid, and still make it appealing to a kid. The animated shows mentioned by others already in this topic still hold up.

Too often they take the easy way out. Writing predictable tripe with your brain tied behind your back is very easy. They did it then and they do it now, but the difference is that on the animation side, they did it a lot less.
 
Eh, why shouldn't they? I myself don't care for Cheetah Girls, but I like Hannah Montana. Just because it has a girl as the main character doesn't mean it's a girls show or for girls only.

Ironically enough (or not), I myself find Nick/Disney to be better at Sitcoms than most network sitcoms these days. Stuff in the past usually did have a twist that made it special (Happy Days, Roseanne, Married with Children, etc) Nowadays if a sitcom is too "normal" for me, like Full House, Grounded for Life, or The War at Home, I don't care much about it; I don't hate them, but they don't seem that special either. Disney and Nick actually put fun little twists on them, like being a secret pop star, being from the future, documentary-style narration, living in the white-house, etc.

So I give Disney/Nick props for that. You could also count animated sitcoms like Fairly Odd Parents and Spongebob as creative too. So live-action or animated, they still know creativity. I think kids and teens look for creativity, and if that means live-action, then that's what they're going to watch.
 
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