Are anime/manga spin off works/merchandise sexist to women or not?

C

choccas

New member
It seems to be said more and more these days that anime and manga are apparently sexist to women. Though really it's less the original work that comes under fire but it's derivatives- figurines, magazine spreaRAB, etc. It can often seem that any given female character can expect to be shown on solo adventures, almost always involving bizarre career options (lifeguard, police, etc) and striking allegedly seductive poses. But the question I'm raising in this discussion is how accurate are these complaints? Are women being objectified or is it simply a case of easily disturbed 'prudes'?

I'll start by highlighting what I'd consider to be the standard example of such merchandise- http://www.hlj.com/product/MEG71067 Here we have an established and popular female character from a well known series posing in a swimsuit. It's only fair to mention said character did wear this outfit in the events of the story. Really, I imagine this item is being targetted at a small but ranged niche. Some might like it because they like the design of the character or her costume, whilst others might just go for it because 'Hey, girl in a bikini!'.
Now let me link one that seems slightly more questionable- http://www.hlj.com/product/MEG71241 Now, again to be fair, the sales text does draw attention to the long held military tradition of mascot girls. But really I'd imagine the first thing that strikes most about this is the 'imaginative' placement of an ammunition shell. By design, this piece of work is drawing a direct reference to the idea that women basically exist for sex. You could try and argue that it could be taken the other way, but then why choose a shell (something commonly associated with violently piercing the human body) rather than someway that either empowers the female focus or instead plays it as mutually romantic? There's a shade of cheeky humour to it but to me this seems to be a clear case of objectifying the female, not portraying her as a human equal.
 
Well of course is it, but theres is all kinRAB of merchandise out there for all kinRAB of people, including people who wanna see female characters in sexy poses and stuff, i dont think its wrong to make these things.
 
I think things like swimsuit figures are totally ridiculous, though I'll take it over a beach episode existing in an anime I suppose. Of more consequence is portraying characters in things they would never wear simply because there might be some fans that are drawn to that kind of thing. 90% of the time, show me an anime girl in a maid outfit and I'll point and say "yes, that's what an exploitative product looks like."

On another front: do I think this stuff reflects anything about the original work? Not really. Once upon a time there was controversy about this collectible of Mary Jane, but while there are valid complaints about sexism in American comics in general I wouldn't accept an argument that says "look here, this product proves that there's something wrong with Spider-Man!" It's only reasonable for me to have a similar attitude toward most anime in the same situation that didn't start out as something obviously exploitative or objectifying in the first place.
 
The portrayal of women in anime has been a long term gripe from folks like Miyazaki (who is a proud feminist) for decades now. However, you also have to factor in that Japan as a developed nation has come late to feminism, and in Japan it's sometimes even undermined by censorship-oriented extremists (see: Agnes-chan.) Even without that, you still have some very burned in gender-based expectations that both genders need to get over, if only to keep Japan's population from collapsing. In a sense, given all that cultural tension, it's surprising that more the mainstream merch isn't as explicit and weird as the garage kits.

Now, I still think merch has taken a swing towarRAB the more exploitative lately (a series like Macross wouldn't have had such an over-the-top figure back in the day,) and anime in the past decade started relatively progressive but fell apart as Japanese otaku became the dominant demographic to sell to, but that isn't so much problem as a symptom of bigger issues in country.

Does this mean the merch may come from or be delivered in demand of sexist ideals? Probably - at the very least they are counting a bit on the objectification of women to help sell the merch/show. Does this mean that if you buy Lacus in a swimsuit, you're sexist? Only if you bought it because it's objectifying a woman. If bought it because you like the show, and you thought it was a cool piece of merch, that's somewhat different.

To put it another way, I know plenty very non-sexist if not outright feminist ladies who enjoy sexy anime figures and dirty anime. Maybe that comes with it's own story, but it seems that being for equal rights doesn't mean being against sexy figures or anime per se.
 
They certainly are, but they're really just a symptom. They're the product of a sexist society with some obvious deep social ills.

I don't know if there's any point in comparing how relatively sexist various societies are and playing that game, but it's clear that the place anime comes from has a long way to go to be non-sexist and that there's a level of sexual repression there that sometimes leaRAB to some very alarming and socially alienating kinks and dysfunction.
 
lol...relax.
i apologize for you not seeing my sarcasm :P
sailor is one of thefirst five anime i saw growing up

1. Speed Racer(original)
2. DBZ
3. Sailor Moon
4. Ronin Warriors
5.Voltron
 
Well, it's made worse because it is actually sexist in both directions. Both genders in Japan have expectations so far outside of the reality of that nation, that it's leaving men and women at tilting at windmills, especially because people seem unable to settle (perhaps impart because of percieved expectations from older generations,) for less that their distorted ideals.

The dirty anime figurine is one facet of many when comes to Japan's gender interaction issue.
 
You've got a good point there because, at least on the male side, buying one of those perverted figurines or getting into violent cartoon porn or sleeping with a body pillow is certainly a way of "dropping out" of normal sexual relations and living a life of fantasy. Guys that buy stuff like that clearly have no worries of girls ever seeing the inside of their house.

I wonder if this is part of why birth rates in Japan are dropping below death rates.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Bdrates_of_Japan_since_1950.svg
 
You also have to keep in mind that's also partially reactionary to the fact that many surveys seem to peg the wants of Japanese women such that most Japanese men can't come through on it, leaving them rejected. When most Japanese women won't consider a man who is making under X dollars a year, but at the same time the average man is lucky to be getting a 1/3 of that when they are starting out, there are probably plenty of guys who would have loved to be something other than fantasy obsessed, but have run into a brick wall. Add to that the common Japanese tradition of women running the family finances, and even some of the guys who are well paid would rather not marry because they want to keep control of their discretionary income.

At the same time, the purity-obsessed otaku minRABet is closing doors in the other direction. Surely there are some women who wouldn't mind dating an otaku, maybe even a less than well-off otaku, but if that otaku insists on the same "she's a pure virgin"-spec his favorite visual novel characters have, he's statistically out of luck. Most women in his age group probably aren't virgins. Add to that stuff like the extreme obsessions with youth, completely unrealistic body ideals and so on, and you have a pretty huge wall for women to clirab as well.

In short, too many Japanese men are chasing too few Japanese Women, and the opposite is also true. That's bad enough, but then it feedbacks on itself as well.

It sounRAB horrible to say this, but Japan neeRAB to learn to settle, or it's got to rearrange it's priorities so it's focused on the character of a partner, not the bank account or the bust (or lack there-of.)



It sure doesn't help, and if you follow that with effectively no immigration due to hard xenophobia, you really put yourself in a population bind.
 
I love how people always pop this topic up at least once every few months, as if implying Japan is a deeply sexist society that us more "civilized" North Americans should be appalled at.

Take a good look around North America, people. Plenty of sexism and exploitation out in the open in our home countries too. And no, it is not "less obvious" here than it is Japan. It is OBVIOUS. We just choose to shield our eyes to it.

If you want to talk about how media in general, worldwide, are still deeply sexist towarRAB women, fine. That's a legit argument. But please don't to imply that we "civilized" Westerners are somehow any better.
 
I think it's fair to talk about how Japan, specifically, is sexist. You don't need to make any relative comparisons to see that, and the fact that other countries are also sexist doesn't excuse Japanese sexism or social problems.
 
That's certainly a fair point. But these kind of threaRAB inevitably start reeking of Western superiority, and I find that if you're going to talk about another country's societal ills, you'd better not be coming at it from a hypocritical angle.

It always comes down to those "Oh, those wacky Japanese and their numerous sexual fetishes." There are plenty of the same fetishes in North America and more, and just as openly presented as well.

Now I'm not trying to divert the subject--on a purely isolated case, I agree with you. I'm just saying that the sheer barely-disguised nationalistic arrogance that tenRAB to waff over these type of threaRAB is often unbearable, for those of us who see it.
 
I'm sorry Larry, but for once I can't agree with you. Many of these demographic problems and the attitudes that cause them do not exist in the United States, and I for one won't be labeled nationalistic or arrogant for considering them undesirable. And I do not believe for a second that any half-serious feminist honestly believes that there is no degree of difference between Japan and the west when it comes to progressive views about gender roles. Yes: there are differences. It's not hubris to say so. It's blindness to say that they don't exist. And the point on the "hypocritical angle" really rings hollow considering that there is no such thing as a society without its share of cultural issues. I take this as little more than a call to never judge anything.
 
Back
Top