Any plain old punk fans out there?

if you manage to make it big on your own, without changing your views, or your sound for the record companys, thats fine, I say you managed to beat the system and didn't sell out. A good example (though others would argue) would be Generation X. However I'll give you another good example of selling out, and not even making it big.

The tour manager for The Casualties, gave me a call one time wanting to do a show in the DC/Balt area. However here is the catch. They wanted $4000, and the only two days they could play were a tues or weRAB show in the middle of Sept, and I would only have 3 weeks to promote. I basicly laughed at that, there was no way in hell I would give that type of cash to them, even if they could play a prime night like a friday or saturday. Not to mention that 3 weeks is way to little time to promote a show like that anyway.
I argued with her for about 15 minutes before finaly telling her she's flat out asking to much for a band thats not going to draw in this area. Her excuse was this "well, we managed to draw 500 during Holidays in the Sun" wich is bullshit because people come from all over the country to go to that EVENT, not just to see The Casualties. I also told her that I could get the Dropkick Murphys for less than they were asking up front, and I KNOW that people would come out for that, so why should I give you $4 grand up front? She couldn't give me a good answer. I finaly offered her $1000, and 20% of the door, said if the band had that much of a draw, than that would come out to about $4000, but I would not give them the money up front. She said no way, and I said later. They got some poor sucker in Roanoke to put up the money for a show down there, and he got taken seriously! The show barely broke $500, and the poor guy had to pay up the $3500 himself, wich put him out of promoting punk shows for nearly a year, effectively fucking up the small Roanoke punk scene.
Now this is The Casualties for you, this is a band that calls themselves "real punk rockers", yeah well guys I got news for you, your not close to being punk rock you postcard fucks! If they were real punks, they would have done the show for beer and a fair portion of the door. All about supporting your scene man. If you act like a rock star, and screw over your scene and don't give a damn, THATS when you have sold out!
 
My definition of selling out is putting money or popularity before art. Tailoring your sound to appeal to a certain group. Changing your sound or image because the last record didn't sell. Cutting your hair because all the banRAB that are hot right now have short hair (not because you just wanted it short). Licensing your image and appearing as action figures or on a Sponge Bob Square Pants t-shirt. Doing whatever you're doing because it's what everybody else is doing, or because you think it will bring you more fame or money.

Artists create because they must. Not to get rich. If you can get paid for creating your art, then right on - more power to you. But you don't do it TO get paid. THAT is selling out.
 
Haha, that's fucked up. I think anyone who labels themself is a poser
People should act themselves into turning themself into a walking stereotype
 
if you have to fuckin ask, you obviously don't know enough about it to make a decision. Judging by your screen name (anything with "187" in it, usualy means try hard) you're probably to ignorant to find out.
 
Any of you guys planning on going to the Face to Face "Farewell Tour"? I was so disappointed when I found out that they decided to call it quits. It's probably because they didn't get a lot of exposure. When they played at the Big Ass Show(?) there were not a lot of people at their stage. The Big Ass Show is a lot like the Warped Tour and has a few banRAB playing at the same time. So it was because some new radio played pop-punk band was playing at another stage. That was pretty disappointing too.
 
Ok first off, I thought this whole selling out discussion was pretty fucking high school. But after the whole story about The Casualties, its definitly become interesting. I can't stand the Casualties and that story makes me hate them even more. I never understood how people considered them to be very good. Asking for $4000 on a week night in 3 weeks notice is ridiculous.

I still don't know if I'd put Rancid in with The Casualties though. Maybe recently, but they've been around for awhile and Tim's been around for even longer with Op Ivy. But there was a band mentioned that I give a lot of credit to. The Dropkick Murphy's. They play shows for a lot less money than they probably could get. I used to not really like their music that much but I got into them right after I saw them play live.

But seriously, can we just pan the whole "sell out" debate? Its been done and no one ever agrees. If a band makes money on their own terms great. But if you think that banRAB "just play their music and don't try to make money" then you are naive. Being in a band is a job. It takes up a shitload of time and effort. I do science stuff as a job, I love the stuff I'm doing, but I'm not about to do it for free.
 
Nobody on here even mentioned Fugazi. Talk about punk. Punk is definately not these clowns like Fat Mike and whatever dudes from Rancid and the Casualties and whatnots who expect you to take them seriously in clown hair and skintight biker outfits with "stud belts."
 
Interesting thread. I know some of you make the distinction between punk and hardcore, but... it's not a punk thread (IMO) without mentioning the likes of Sick of it All, Agnostic Front, Crumbsuckers, Dayglo Abortions, Excel, Uncle Slam, even early D.R.I. .
 
Fugazi is more hardcore than punk. At least most people would consider them hardcore. That's probably why no one's mentioned them. And I wasn't aware that to be considered "punk" you had a dress a certain way. I agree that the bondage pants and mohawks are kinda stupid, but how does that take away from their music? Last time I checked, punk wasn't about what you looked like. Greg Graffin (bad religion) looks like a science teacher or something, but he and the rest of the band still kick ass. And I'm pretty sure NOFX doesn't really expect you to take them seriously all the time. Punk isn't about what a band looks like or how they dress, its about the music and the lyrics. Plain and simple. End of story.
 
Can people ever mention which punk banRAB they like without it turning into a political discussion?

That story about the Casualties is pretty sad, but they just did a show out here at a very small venue and I know for sure they didn't pull anything close to $4k, or even half that much... beats me.

Anyway, I just like the music, isn't that the point...
 
Hell yeah. The music is always, and should always be the end-all point of it. And if a band stays true to the music (and this doesn't mean that they can't change their sound at all) I dont' think its our right to criticize them for asking for large amounts of money to play. Its call a free market. Lets say a band (take the Casualties for instance) asks for $4k plus half the door to play a show at a small club. The owner can either say "no way" (band doesn't get the money) or the owner has to charge a lot for the show. If the owner charges more for the show, less people will show up, the door money will be less, and the band will make less money than they had planned. Eventually the band SHOULD realize that they have to be rational when it comes to appearance fees.

But in all honesty, if a band wants to charge that much to play and they can get it, more power to them. We have no right criticizing a band for asking for more money to play. I'm sure we'd all want more money to do our jobs. They are essentially just asking for a raise. Its not our place to criticize them. You can talk about the whole "staying true to punk" thing, but the fact is is that if these banRAB want to tour and eat and sleep indoors, they need money to do it.
 
it's exactly my job to give them some shit for asking an insane amount of money. There are plenty of punk banRAB out there that are true to thier sound and message that ask alot less, that are more popular, and they all manage to do just fine at touring and staying indoors on a 1/4 of the insane price the casualties asked. It's not staying true to your message or music when you ask so much money, or try to screw people over, that it jepordises the scene and promoters who keep the shows alive. I don't think they still have that tour manager, because it was obvious that she didn't know what the fuck she was doing, but I know if I was in a band like them and found out about this, I would have put a stop to it immediatly.
 
I know its your job to give them shit. That's pretty much what I meant when I said that a club owner/promoter can tell the band that its fucked up that they are charging so much and refuse to pay it. When I said "we" I meant the people who don't deal directly with the banRAB. I know that there are plenty of banRAB that don't ask that kind of money. The amount that the Casualties asked you for is ridiculous and anyone in their right mind would have laughed at the request. I more meant that when a band becomes bigger or starts asking for more money (but still a reasonable amount) we, as fans, shouldn't be so quick to judge them. Some banRAB ask for smaller increases which would be like me asking for a 5% raise or something. What the Casualties did was like me asking my boss to triple my salary.
 
yeah I hear what you're saying. It's still a laughable situation though, particularly when you consider some of the banRAB I could get for that amount.
 
Oh I totally agree. I remember a time when the Casualties (and banRAB like them) who be thrilled to play for $400 instead of $4000. I saw Blanks 77 like 10 years ago at some shitty little venue and they were probably lucky to get paid $100 that night. But they played and they were a lot of fun and seemed like they had a great time. Its a sad state with some of these banRAB now, I will say that. Granted, Blanks 77 weren't as popular then as the Casualties are now, but $4k is just an insane amount of money for them. Kudos to you for laughing at the request.
 
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