Anti-depressants

H

Helen Keller

New member
Welbutrin made me mean as a motherfucker and twice as crazy. I loved how I felt on it, though. I felt liberated and my eyes were more opened. This was either a sign of self-realization or insanity. I still think the latter was the case.
 
It's just weird that you mentioned earlier how you "control your mind with your mind"

Dude. You are you're mind.

It's just funny you mentioned that before you said there is no psychological cause for your illness, yet now you have cured it with cheap cardboard-copy of real psychological methods. Mind is an amazing thing.
 
You noted that


and



I admit it was rather roughly put, but still you are yet to prove these depressions that are caused by non-psychological factors. You stated that a majority of these states are caused by mercury. A majority. Yet mercury has tens of effects, and I'm pretty sure it just does not create depression out of thin air if the person is not at least in a depressed mood to begin with.
 
I believe that it was misinterpreted. It was supposed to show that things such as mercury (which by far is not my only example or point) and other chemicals in daily life create depressive states, and because of such, psychological cures are not the answer.

So for me to say "my point is that people look too often to the psychological cause vs biological cause" is to say that there are biological stimulus that create what appear to be a psychological or chemical imbalance, when it is simply something in nature (your surroundings, predominately man made) is the cause.

Also, when saying that "i refuse to believe that not everyone can get out of a depressions or psychologically detrimental state by changing their stimulus" is to say that when confronted depression it is always caused by something outside of your mind and how you understand it psychologically. So while you may not be able to control what you see, you are definitely in control of how you perceive and deal with it.

Any depressive state, or chemical imbalance cause by something from the outside world (outside your brain) can be corrected by lots of things. I personally dont think that pills are the best way to treat it, no matter what.

I guess, in a nutshell, im sayin that depression and chemical imbalances are attributed to one of three, or a combination thereof, things: worldy stimulus (ie chemicals food intake, diet etc), perception or birth defect.

If you notice, i said that pills in the case of birth defect are the only option. Due to the fact that there is nothing you can do to make up for the fact that the body is physically incapable of producing the proper chemicals for happiness.

but if the cause is your perception, or "worldly things" then pills are out of the question.

And mercury (this also means other things, like flouride, chemicals used in productions of goods and services) can infact create depression out of thin air. Because that particular state of depression is not related to psychologically dammaging events. It effects the body's ability to create, produce and break down the proper chemicals for the sensation of happiness.

If there is no psychological event to explain depression what would you likely conclude is the culpret for the cause?
 
Okay, I haven't read all the responses, but I've skimmed and I have my own opinion to throw in here.

"Clinical depression" is described to be an imbalance of chemicals in the brain. I believe this imbalance can occur. Do I believe that it happens in as many people are diagnosed with it? Not necessarily. I think it's a new blanket diagnosis. However, that is neither here nor there as it is not what the OP asked about.

Siryus, several years back I was diagnosed with clinical depression. I didn't at first believe it was a chemical imbalance in my brain as I was told, but since then I have realized that I may very well be dealing with that very situation in at least some small part. I was prescribed Lexapro, and it worked, sort of. The problem I had was that it completely killed all of my emotions. I was completely apathetic towards everything. I found out later it was because my dosage was too high, but this was after I had already decided to stop taking it. Just keep an eye out for that. If you are experiencing anything like that total apathy talk to your doctor because that's usually a pretty good sign that the dose you're taking is too high.

Also, if you ever make the decision to stop taking it then talk to your doctor about that as well. Do NOT just stop taking it cold turkey. I did that, and I was a complete and uncontrollable bitch the next couple of days. I had to avoid people like the plague because the chemicals in my brain were so out of whack I was snapping at the slightest thing. Your doctor will be able to help you ease away from the medication. He/she will probably try to convince you to not stop taking it, but if you feel the medication just isn't for you then hold your ground. You can always pick it up again later if you just can't bear without.

I chose to stop taking the medication because of a variety of reasons. One, there was a lot going on at the time I was diagnosed that gave me ample reasons to be depressed (the emotion, not the condition). Two, I hated the idea of being on medication for the rest of my life. Three, I felt that what I was dealing with could only be dealt with if I put my mind to it. I didn't want to rely on drugs to do the dealing for me. I still experience bouts of depression, some of them caused by something going on in my life, and some of them not. When it's something that's going on in my life I just work on fixing the problem. If I have no cause to be depressed, and it's just one of those funks I just have to ride it out. This is a decision that you must make for yourself. Don't let anyone else tell you what is best for you when it comes to this sort of thing. You say you've stayed pretty active and have dealt with this depression for several years, so it's not like you just jumped straight to medication. Don't feel bad about taking it, as you've already tried many other measures. It may even turn out that you only need the medication for a little while.

I understand the desire to avoid medication, as I have an aversion to taking any kind of medication myself. Hell, I don't take pain medication for a headache unless it lasts more than a couple of hours. However, if something is seriously wrong and you've tried everything else then don't pass up a chance to get better.

Best of luck to you. :hug2:
 
I haven't really read this properly, well I'm not sure if I have, being early in the morning and all.
But, from what I have found lately, Doctors are handing anti-depressants out like lollypops after an injection.
So many of my friends, and even me, have been prescribed with anti-depressants when all they really needed was an escape from the bad shit that is happening, or something to take their minds off the fact that something is upsetting them.
Most kids who are on anti-depressants really just need someone to talk to and someone who will listen.
One of my friends started taking anti-depressants and they became a depressant. I'm not sure exactly which ones he was on. But the result was that he had become more and more depressed. He was only better when he was off the drug. This huge step back made him realise how much better he felt off them and then tried alternatives to make himself feel better. This worked.
Another friend of mine went on anti-depressants and started having nightmares and sudden mood swings.
This isn't to say that they don't work. There are plenty of people I know on anti-depressants that work perfectly. It is just a bit of a gamble simply because you are introducing a foreign mind altering substance into your body. These can work and these can't work.
Hope it works out for you.




Lachy "The Wind" Wyatt has donkey nipples.
 
DrDray, are you sure you weren't misdiagnosed? Have you sought a second opinion?


Furthermore, not all antidepressants work the same. Depression is described as the common cold of psychology, and just as there are a plethora of flu meds, there is a plethora of depression meds. My sister was originally on one class, but she didn't like how it affected her, so she's on a new class that works differently. If anything, that could be seen as the biggest problem with anti-depressants-finding the ones that work best for you.

Also, someone mentioned a friend taking anti-depressants, and they got worse. Wellbutrin is known to do that, especially to teens. Also, keep in mind that for I believe it's people who are bipolar that uppers are downers and vice versa. Espresso puts them to sleep and downers make them wide awake.
 
[youtube]_sYhTdeLRM8[/youtube]

[youtube]5_un3U-Q40k[/youtube]

[youtube]wMxZ7MJsegM[/youtube]

[youtube]qgufOLNuob0[/youtube]

[youtube]HcW7jj3k2BE[/youtube]

[youtube]JwMkZ2MTFBE[/youtube]
(the rest of the parts can be found on you tube. I would urge you to watch them all.)


Now, argument aside... im eager to know if any of you find this somewhat compelling? I would specifically like RetArt's opinion, and anyone else who holds pills to be "the answer".
 
How about this Kre8,

now that I have been on the medication for over a week I am starting to feel actual results.

The side effects at first were annoying, mostly just the nausea, but soon even that stopped.

Little things that usually would upset me to the point of tears no longer even bother me, that's not to say that I don't have emotions, but rather the ones that I have are much more stable than previously.

Not to mention the energy boost I have received, before I had to wrestle myself out of bed, now I have little difficulty getting my mind into gear.

I know it's only been a little more than a week, and I am still having moments of depression, their frequency is much less. I can't wait to see where I'll be in another few weeks.

Knock down the pills if you will, but I am living again. You may be strong enough to will your brain chemistry, however I am not, I am okay with the thought of being weak minded if it means I get my life back.
 
GJB.jpg
 
How does me getting my life back make me a sheep?

Honestly, I can see where wearing Hot Topic, or assigning myself to a group, or trying to fit in while abandoning my ideals would make me a sell out, I don't see how trying to be happy fits into the category.

That makes no sense.
 
My views

I'll give you my view on the medical praction on mental illness first, so you can see where I stand. I do not think that the current diagnostic classification system (the biomedical model) is the best possible. I would say that the classification is only useful for the officials and insurance companies, for the diagnostee it often is unbenefitiary. When a child get's for example a diagnosis of bipolar he starts to think that bipolarism is a defining feature in him. In some causes this will relieve stress, as it "explains away" all the ill behaviour to an external label, but in many it also works as a self-actualizing prophecy.

I would much more favour a practice that sees the person as a unique subject with his/her personal history, hereditary background etc. and view the situation as a continuation. You have lately been feeling ill, you can't get out of bed, you have thoughts of self-harm etc. and it seriously affects your normal life. Let's see what got you into that situation and we can do about it. That way the people can feel they are in the center and not reduced to masses of "depressed people". If I see the situation needs pharmaceutical measures, I sure as hell will recommend them. It is dumb to deny people evidence-based treatment if they need it.

I also, as stated several times for example in this forum, do not like the pharmaceutical industry and find them greedy and priviligative (sp). I have both scientific and clinical evidence to support the claim that they do indeed work. So again, denying people medication due to your own stubborness serves only narcissistic purposes and is against the good of the client. I still think psychopharmacology to be overused in many western societies. It still has several good uses, when used when needed.

For well-argumented dissidism on psychiatrical low-points go to the last psychiatrist


--

On the FIlm

First of all I'll give you an overall view. This is clearly propaganda and rather ill put for that matter. It uses childish psychological methods that make you more suspecting this bullshit than taking it seriously. It has some good points though, so I'll make this a long one.

The beginning:

The beginning is just stupid. People rambling different drug-names. So what? Also they have clips showing psychiatrists stating that "we do not have a mental illness that shows on a single test" or "there is not a blood-test for mental illness". Of course there isn't as it is not a physical problem. It is a psychophysical problem, and that is what makes it so interesting. That is also why a wide variety of tests are used alongside a clinical interview. Way to but things off-context.

Then there are second person views on the side-effects. Yes. Every drug has side-effects, but the goods outweigh the bad. It has a good point on general physicians prescribing psychotropes, that should be looked into and is really bad practice.

Then theres about the "beginning of mental illnessess". What a load of bull. Surely they invented the modern names for depression or schizophrenia etc. but the disease was already there before, usually the client locked to a wooden cage under the floor of a barn somewhere. Read The History of Psychiatry. Also you might be interested in knowing that the ancient egyptians and mesopotamians used to have documented knowledge about mental disorders. (http://pb.rcpsych.org/cgi/reprint/11/12/420.pdf) Also the indians, the hebrews, the chinese, the crecoroman, persic, arabic and medieval Europe has documented information and descriptions on mental illnesses. I can PM you the link list, if you have access to any real scientific database.

Also DSM-IV is not the only diagnostic manual. It is not used for example in Europe.

Also the notion that chemical imbalance during mental illness is not proven is a huge load of bullshit. Also psychotropic drugs don't kill people, the people in need of them are in a higher risk of death than "normal" people to begin with. Argumentation 101 fail.
No new news on the physicians being corrupt. I have even written a published article on this. It is sorry and mainly due to the fucked up lobbying-system of the US. That is why I earler stated that european independent studies should be looked into for safe information. That or then you could read the study, ask for the data and valuate the statistical method used. If it's a double-blind well controlled unbiased statistically it does not matter who wrote the article.

Ask a schizophrenic or severely depressed about "fictitious" illnessess. ..

Also the claim that anyone can be classified for a mental illness is just insane. Stupid shit. Read DSM-IV or ICD-10 and try to find anything that justifies this statement.

Also it appears to be bad that the people get treatment for their illness.
On S.A.D. – intresting, but ill-based. If a psychologist or Paxil can reduce social anxiety or panic attacks for even one person it is worth using.

On bipolar – Bullshit. Have you known a person with BP? (sure you have) A one with a psychotic episode? A one that walks off a hospital for a coffee and comes back in fifteen minutes having bought three bucket chargers? Pediatric Bipolar is a true issue that should be looked into. It is mainly an issue in the States though. Also we don't usually prescribe drugs for it here, as it clearly is an impulse-control problem that can be psychologically looked into. If this doesn't help, they can get the client on drugs when he is adult or when all else fails. Also DSM-IV does not know Bipolar for children. It is FDA–bullshit, not DSM. (a book tip for a bipolar autobiography: An unquiet mind. Kay Redfield–Jamison)

Also some drugs work for others, some for others. This is due to the different types of illness and receptors. Trial and error, yes, yet in many cases the fitting drug is found and the person gets better.

On bad studies: They can always be looked into and everyone with a basic statistical knowledge can make their own ergo's on whether the study is well made or not. Either that or look into where the study has been published (a well-known peer-reviewed journal vs. an internet publication or Journal of hooblaa)

Pharma makes money, before the drugs were all patent-free and for the good of the people. Now they are all patented (malaria, polio, antidepr. etc.) after the US pharma was brought up. It IS a bad system and should not be trusted as a given. Still they have drugs that work, and they should be used when needed. Also side-effects are always listed, that quote was stupid. It says on the box whether it can cause suicidal behaviour (when misdiagnosed depressed vs bipolar), yet that is in tenths of promilles that such happens. (I think there have been 6 cases confirmed in all the world)

We do know how psychotropic drugs work as well as we know how penicillin or anti-inflammatory drugs work. Yet again stupid argumenting.

The university and pharma: This is why universities should not rely on outside financing and should be government-financed. The free science ideal is highly lost in the US. Hence the ghost-writing. You also shouldn't never trust anything just because it is written by a famous author without critically reading through it first. I have several scientific journals ordered and none of them include drug-ads as they are immoral.


---


So yeah, an interesting, yet very poorly done propaganda piece that has some good points but fails in covering them up in layers after layers of tightly knit bullshit.
 
Back
Top