Anime and sexism/feminism

Michiko to Hatchin easily passes, seeing as it's about two female characters talking to each other.

I think Evangelion passes too, which is strange because its treatment of women isn't the greatest.
 
And also, you don't have to make EVERY female in your show a badass also. If for story purposes you have a deliberately weak and passive female character then by all means I think they should do it. Just don't build your entire show around THAT character and it's fine.
 
Declining birth rates are a problem, but hey, Declining train gropes. Catch 22.

Seriously though, it could be a matter of overexposure and desensitization. I mean, the stuff the western world would go bananas over(Miniskirts, H-Anime, naughty catgirls, etc.) comes from Japan, where it's likely cranked up to eleven and it's likely that by the time you start going through puberty, you can find it anywhere.

For example, a friend of mine spent a few years in Japan before we met, and once he showed me a comic anthology similar to Shonen Jump, just called Young. In between the comics, and on the covers were 20 year old female models in bikinis. This is what you can get when you're twelve. (And then he showed me Men's Young, but that's not the point.)

These grass guys don't have to go far to get the stuff, so maybe that's why a loss of libido is going on over there.
 
I notice how the crossdressing/androgynous women are written so much better than the typical heroine. I consider Utena to be my favorite female anime character so far. She made some mistakes in the series, but she never came across as either ditzy, useless damsel-in-distress or *****y, "girl power" type. Let me point out that I don't recall them ever dominating the men on some power trip unlike characters such as Kagome who sits Inuyasha every episode. It's ashame, if not a bit unfair, that these types of women receive better treatment. It gives off the "women have to have masculine qualities" to be taken seriously. They're both women so why is one so much easier to write than the other?

The typical heroines didn't bother me, say ten years ago, but now they're starting to annoy me. What's the point of bringing a girl along on an adventure if she adRAB nothing to group other than being kidnapped, useless, going ga-ga over the lead male, and/or whining about how she's holding everyone back?! I wish those girls would stay home instead of slowing down the group. Hypocritically, I'm also not a fan of the wife/girlfriend/mother who misses out on adventures. For example, I really wish Chi Chi could have done something other than nag Gohan in DBZ. She was a pretty good fighter in DB.

It's wasted potential that plagues the typical anime/manga heroine. Alot of them start off very interesting and then they are durabed-down over the course of the series. Someone mentioned Naomi Misora from Death Note. It takes one episode for her to find out important evidence in the Kira case and she's killed off immediately. Why? Because the author said she was too smart . She coulda been a real asset to the story, yet the author couldn't find a creative way to keep her around. Why introduce her then? Rei (Sailor Moon) went from being a no-nonsense type in the manga to a boy-crazy, idol wannabe in the anime. Some people said this change gave her more "personality". We already had Mako and Mina (also idol wannabe) who were boy-crazy. Miaka's subplot in the manga (Fushigi Yugi) involving her mother was all but removed in the anime. Yes, she was still somewhat clumsy and a glutton, but she was also a hardworking student studying very hard (at cram school) to enter a prestigious high school. Of course their better qualities fall by the wayside as soon as some gorgeous man appears .

Falling in love seems to be the death knell for alot the heroines. It's like their common sense flies out the window. She usually loses sight of her goal or gets easily sidetracked. Shonen heroes, on the other hand, are either clueless or too focused on their goals to make time for relationships. Of course I would love to see more balanced relationships in anime/manga; it would be more beneficial. Aya (Ayashi No Ceres) goes back and forth between trying to find the hagaramo and having sex with Touya (which could last a few pages ).

I don't mind fanservice too much, I guess. A little never hurts, right ? Just as long as it doesn't take over the show. Never had a problem with the nude scenes in Tenchi, but I couldn't help but raise my eyebrow at the male fanservice during the last two arcs of Revolutionary Girl Utena. You had guys with their pants unbuttoned, posing seductively on top of cars, laying in bed, and the list goes on. Leave some for the imagination, guys!!!

Speaking of guys, can we stop with the depowering of male leaRAB!!! I'm just sick of these wet blankets being front and center. They're is what's stopping me from watching harem and magical girlfriend shows because the guys are usually these wimps that flinches the minute a woman raises her voice at him. They get knocked around in their own house while taking care of the girl/girls. What happened to being assertive? I don't necessarily want to see the guy beating up girls every episode, but a smack every now and then would improve some of these shows. Between the punks and the jerks, I'm not sure which is worse.
 
(Full disclosure: I haven't seen more than an episode or two of Eva.)

Well, the Bechdel Test is meant to be a bare minimum kind of thing-- just because something passes still doesn't necessarily make it a groundbreaking feminist work, or a good work in general. Nor does NOT passing have to make it a BAD work, just a work that would be better if it didn't give such short shrift to 52% of the population.

For example, I'm pretty sure Noir would have to pass, but it's such a terrible show in absolutely every other respect that it's hard for me to care too much. (-:
 
I've heard that quite a bit, It's kinda along the same line as "She's just a guy with breasts" argument

I do see your point though, I happen to prefer androgynous female characters as well, it's a shame they aren't common.

As for typical heroines.. I think the problem partially lies in the fact that, vrom the perspective of the writer, the manga's appeal (well, particularly shoujo manga, perhaps anime as well) lies in the male lead. The female? She there simply for the reader to place in her position, and thus she's hasn't got alot of depth in comparison. Maybe I"m wrong about this
 
Any sci-fi show where two female scientists spew gobs and gobs of technobabble certainly passes, but that doesn't mean said show is watchable.
 
Claymore would Deffiantly pass the Test! & Bleach Might. Case Closed should, I mean True Rachel Talk about Jimmy alot, but overall she's still a strong Female character. & I would Say Her Friend Sarina Talks about Guys alot more then Her (& then of course theres Ai....) I'd say thats a good test, but there are a few flaws in it.
 
Sterotypes may have some truth to them, but exaggeration of the truth is still a lie. The best approach is to focus on the stories and characterizations first and then decide which character types would fit the story rather than just using sterotypes as a crutch.
 
Well, if she were being associated with someone like Ranma's sexual deviant master Happosai (which seems to be the misconception leading to Ranma's abuse more often than not), then yeah, she'd probably deserve to be punched in the head if people kept thinking she was constantly stealing men's underwear and peeking in on them at baths.
 
Yeah, don't get me wrong: I love Revy and think she's an awesome character.

...I just wouldn't want to date her, that's all. As a matter of fact, pretty much all of the females in that series frankly scare me. After The Second Barrage, Balalaika is the stuff nightmares are made of.
 
As I quoted this, it was interesting that you used Pink font. I agree with the above statement EXCEPT the part I bolded. Ironically, I think that's unfair to say about those two traits, although I agree with everything else you say. Personally, It's far, far worse to see a girl that hits people for no reason and never gets called on it rather than one who is shy.
 
When did you say kiRAB?

I was following this convo for a bit.
It was a nice action show.

I knew what the other guy meant too. I did not see it as exaggeration.
Someone also mentioned Gantz. Instead I present Tenjho Tenge. I am recalling one Bath scene with two women.
Ever See Megazone 23? Watch it sometime.
(That one had a surprise scene in it)
 
I think what's bad about the shy, blushing damsel in distress is not so much the archetype itself, but the frequency with which it shows up to the exclusion of all other types of female characters.

Taken on its own, there's nothing wrong with it, but when that's ALL you see (alternating with the occasional tsundere), it creates the perception that female characters are just there to be rescued, that they exist as a reward to male characters for being manly hero types.
 
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