Anime and sexism/feminism

Well, to be fair, I don't know much about Baccano, but I do believe it takes place in the '30s where that sort of thing was more commonplace than it was today.

I think it's less a conservative backlash and more the fault of moe. This might be a bit of a crazy theory, but think about it: as moe becomes popular, new staff at animation studios tend to have a interest in moe. Moe fans generally want submissive women in their relationships. Since these staff work on a wide variety of shows and not just moe, they bring a bit of their "women should obey their masters" attitude with them into other shows.



1) There's a lot more ugly dudes in anime than girls intended to be ugly.
2) A lot of the fanservicey anime girls aren't that good looking.
3) I don't like Moribito, but Balsa is hot without being a sex object.
 
It's not the objectification of the characters themselves, but what they represent. Such things reflect on the society that they are created in. People write what they know, so the characters they create will often represent how a society views gender and gender roles. Yes, there are exceptions, but the fact remains that in both America and Japan, women in entertainment on the whole tend to be less independent and weaker than their male counterparts. The damsel in distress is too much a reflection of how men even in modern society view women, even if subconsciously. The fanservice women are an indication of men feeling the need to objectify their women as sex objects. And that's what bothers me. The characters themselves, whatever, but what they stand for is where the problem lies.
 
It is still an exageration (a big one), which nice action-adventure shows have you seen that "border" on actual porn exactly?, cause ive yet to see any of those with anything "bordering" on actual sex. Bordering is like super super close (like how america borders mexico, they even touch) right?
 
I take slight issue with that. I almost never see ugly males that aren't bad guys (and thus, their outer appearance only reflects who they really are). What gets lost in this discussion is how often males are expected to be unrealistically attractive. Thus this type of discussion always portrays a "sexist" angle when it's more an attractive people angle.

Even when the male seems normal at first, a change of clothes often puts him in the 1 percent body fat group.
 
As usual, you make very valid points.
I should make it clear that I'm not being down on fanservice flat out. As I compared it a few posts earlier, it's one of those things which is fine in small doses. Likewise things like figurines, when tastefully done. My argument is firmly against the times when both shows and the merchandise go too far. Even if this is an issue where we and Japan differ, you can't tell me something like this isn't frowned on even there. I've even heard stories about some Japanese fans who with this kind of stuff floating around worry that it's seen by the rest of world as being fully normal over there when it isn't.
I wouldn't doubt there are some directors who see this stuff and say "..What did you do to my characters?" but that doesn't address the issue that it's still being produced. I'm sorry if I sound like a prude here (I'm not trying to be), but all this stuff is doing is indulging questionable fantasies of certain fans by giving them animated idols they can cast as they wish. Behaviour like that shouldn't be encouraged. I'm not saying that everyone should live in line with my personal views, but I'm certainly not the first to raise issue with this kind of culture. There are even reports in some of the worst cases of guys who would rather have a harem of wish fulfilment figures than attempt to court a real woman. I think that's terrible and this is coming from a guy who admitedly isn't a winner with women himself. These people need to accept reality, not hide away in fantasy. Indulging like this only means they're missing out on the true strengths of life and hurting the attempts to get women seen as equal.
 
I know, it's disturbing, isn't it?

'Course, that is balanced by the fact that the main female character, who also appears to be about twelve, goes around half the time with nothing on above the waist but what appears to be a sports bra, and the other half with an actual shirt on, but a miniskirt that would make Twiggy blush.

...Remeraber Twiggy? No? Damn, I feel old.
 
Well, it depenRAB. "Skank" is all relative. Certainly some people like showing skin more than others, but it doesn't mean it's demeaning for the wearer. It may not be to your TASTE, and you may question the woman's wisdom in wearing such outfits, but you can't really say it's sexist unless the person is being FORCED to do so.




Oh, yeah, I agree. Not all women are fragile flowers and SHOULDN'T be portrayed that way in entertainment but simply put, would you REALLY find a constant gag of Ranma punching Akane in the eye as comfortable as Akane punching Ranma in the eye? It's easy to sermonize about equal opportunity but I daresay people would still react to one differently than the other.

Moderator Note: Do not double-post. Use the "Edit" button instead.
 
Watch an episode of Queen's Blade. It is devoid of anything reserabling intelligence and charm. It even lacks the honesty of straight up pornography.

And this is from a guy who thinks Ikkitousen should have been on Adult Swim over Case Closed easily.
 
Wouldn't the fact they have it in the show and make it a focus indicate that they rely on it? I mean, a satire of a genre is still part of that genre, and simply acknowledging it's bad doesn't really excuse you doing it.
 
Blasphamy! Nothing would Have been Better on AS then the all mighty Case Closed! Now Repent! I kid of Course. But Its True Queens Blade in some aspects is worse then..."Explicit Material" I mean At least stuff like that is honset with what it is, I mean Queens Blade is basically Hentai trying to pass its self off as ecchi, wich is just wrong, I still have trouble Wrapping my Head around the fact that its an actual show on CABEL Television in Japan. whats even sadder is theres probably some underage kid in japan watching it, wich will most likely lead him to be Very Perverted in life, or Make him scared of women all together, (I say this because of the Acid shooting you know whats) either way any kid that see's queens blade is goona have Probalms later in life if you ask me.
 
...Revy is certainly not a sex syrabol. Unless you like violent, murderous, mentally disturbed sociopaths. Revy's physically attractive in a way, but she has this almost feral quality about her, especially in the anime. I like her as a character, but she's pretty ugly personality-wise. She gets better as the series goes on and Rock starts growing on her, but you won't see me lusting over her like I would some hot "action movie babe". Sure, her outfit just screams 'exploitable', but that's just some harmless cheesecake. It has nothing to do with reducing her character to being a pretty girl to be ogled.

The show and manga themselves are at times an ode to Hollywood action flicks, so Revy's outfit is perhaps a bit of a poke at things. The mangaka does have a bit of a twisted sense of humor. For example, Dutch's character design just screams out "typical black action star", but his character goes beyond that.
 
It is changing though. I've noticed a subtle but noticeable change in the "depowering" of male characters in some anime. People here complain about the "wimp" male character all the time these days because it's so common. While certainly there are plenty of anime designed to objectify women, there's also a shift towarRAB the "male in distress" or the "passive" male.

We have to be careful not to focus in on one side as well. One might say, if anything, that anime has a very cynical outlook on both genders in today's era.

It's good that we have some females chiming in here. I do feel like some of us male posters are perhaps getting a little too self-righteous in our so-called "feminist" sermons that we start applying what WE believe to be "proper" female role models when the female posters have been a little more even-handed. I've been a bit guilty of this as well. It feels like some of us are doing exactly what we're comdemning--telling people how females SHOULD act, even if it's supposedly in the name of "feminism".
 
I think one could certainly make an argument that every heroine in an action oriented Ghibli flick is pretty gar - I mean, I wouldn't mess with Princess Mononoke or Nausica
 
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