Anime and sexism/feminism

Many people do various things to make themselves look better just to feel better about themselves.

Physical appearance and self esteem do have some correlation.
 
Speed Grapher

Now that's a perfect example of how people's personal tastes are personified into a show that was a surprisingly trippy and good anime series
 
Heh. Now this is just personally, I greatly favored Goh getting together with Shizuru over Anna . But, if I were to say a third guy for Shizuru, maybe that gangly pale tech, I forget his name.
 
Yet historically, it's not true that free speech implies anything should go. There's good reason for some restrictions. Libel, slander, lies, disinformation, etc. - all sorts of speech can cause harm or significant risk of harm. Free speech is an important right, so any need for limits had better be darn well established. Good intentions alone (moral guardianism included) are insufficient. Some slopes really are slippery.

Mmm, I think I did answer that, if I'm understanding correctly. The desire to improve your appearance is, as far as I can reason at the moment, intrinsically linked to a concern with what others think about you. Vanity, validation in the eyes of your peers and significant others, even self esteem are connected in some way to how you believe others will judge you, whether you choose to rationally acknowledge this or not. So yes, for most people, physical appearance may well be in a category apart from physical and mental self improvement.

There might be a few other tangential reasons, but they amount to "if you've got it, flaunt it." You could use your attractiveness to further your career. I can't help imagining all sorts of horribly sexist (and unethical) scenarios though. Sure, if you're going to a job interview, don't look like a slob, but that's just being pragmatic. Emphasizing your sexiness for a job interview is questionable behavior, even if it gets results - perhaps especially if it gets results! I suppose models and porn stars do have to make a living, but uhh... we were talking about sexism, right? Yeah. Exactly. Where the heck was I going with this? Tell me.

So I'm still not sure of the purpose behind your previous reply. Impressing a mate ought to encompass reproductive urges. I don't understand what this business of guaranteed pregnancy is supposed to be about.

--Romey
 
Not wierd, just counterproductive to what seems to be the goal of feminism. If you read the rest of the sentance you quoted, you'll see my reason as to why female protagonists are not as common.
 
1. Wedding Peach is one example. There was so much of "I must be pretty, I must go on a diet/lose weight, my one goal in life is to get a boyfriend and be a beautiful bride someday" it made me absolutely sick to my stomach.

2. Anime tenRAB to make females weak - even if they appear strong (at least in mind) they usually have to be rescued often (if not every episode - Kagome of Inuyasha comes to mind) and still dream of being a beautiful bride, cooking for the one they love (and calling it "a woman's true joy" or some crap) and raising children deep down. With American animation, guys are made out to be stupid idiots, while the females are almost perfect and stand for "girl power." While I'm all for strong females (you can never have too many), I think there neeRAB to be some middle ground - you shouldn't have to "durab down" the males in order to make the girls look better. It's kind of insulting.
 
There is one anime that I watch because it has a strong female lead:

The Slayers series.

Lina Inverse is not in any way a damsel in distress. She speaks normally, and is not absurdly well endowed. She is also very independent, smart, has a fiery temper, is very clever, and doesn't take crap form anyone.

In fact out of the main Slayers cast only 2 of the main recurring characters are male, Gourry and Zelgaddis. (Xellos doesn't count)

Lina is probably by a very wide margin the strongest female character in anime. Not in physical strength, but in independency.

She knows the most powerful spells in magic, has considerable sworRABmanship, is very smart, loud, and clever. She has even done more in her life so far, then most people do in 10 lifetimes. Plus she is the main person (usually) responsable for taking down the various head villains of the series, manga, and novels.

All of the OVAs and movies are available in English.

The first 3 TV series are available too (Funimation, formerly Software Sculptures) Slayers, Slayers: Next, and Slayers: Try. The dub for the TV series is different than the movies because different companies have them. The English TV dub is easily one of the best anime dubs though. The voices are perfect.

There is a fourth TV series, Slayers Revolution, (2008-2009), but it is still just in Japan.
 
Well, Melfina has to pilot the ship naked, for one. Aisha's a busty catgirl in skimpy clothing, so I think that's self-explanitory. I can't remeraber much about Suzuka to be honest since I haven't seen the series in a long time, though I think there were a few scenes of her robe conveniently slipping. There was also that famous "hot springs" episode CN skipped.

I never said it was. Though like you said, there's very few examples of that in animation (I guess Stripperella would be one) since that's more for live-action, comic books, and video games.
 
You aren't the only one, I almost quit watching shows like Ranma 1/2 and Rurouni Kenshin because of stuff like that, we need more heroes who aren't hesitant to fight back, even against chicks, seriously I think these guys are masochists, I mean what girl do you know who takes out their frustration and jealousy by hitting on a guy 24/7

And I guess I'm outnurabered, since I don't let fanservice or loli's stop me from enjoying shows
 
You are mistaking being sexy with "relying on their sexuality".

A woman who "relies on their sexuality", will seduce someone to get what they want. Except for Faye, most of those characters I listed didn't do that.
 
I'll applaud that "Behind the Nihon Review" blog for the interesting interview, but that said......

.......this is a load of nonsense.

*cracks knuckles*

1. Let's just recall what "moe" is real quick.


(origin thread here)

Sorry, but this just doesn't easily apply to Miyazaki's heroines. At best it sounRAB like he's just saying that it started a trend that went from something extremely mild to something severely overdone, which Miyazaki himself isn't even directly responsible for. But ultimately none of them have your typical otaku quirks, just about all of them are brave or independent or both, and none of them are drawn in a way that encourages otaku fetishization. In sum, if even Miyazaki's women are moe and/or sexist, then the terms apply to everything and have absolutely no meaning at all.

2. Even if I accepted all of Yamamoto's criticisms about Miyazaki at face value--which I most certainly don't--there's an element of passing the buck here that I really don't care for. He seems to get what the problems are and the way things should be, but if a given creator or studio is too willing to cater and perpetuate the so-called "negative cycle" then that's their individual fault entirely, rather than the fault of Ghibli for not leading the way out. One would think that the example of their success would be sufficient to encourage them to think and do something unconventional. And that's just Ghibli, not counting all of the most famous anime titles--most of which are not a product of "moeification" or blatantly sexist concepts.

It's also rather beyond me why he's bothering to attack Miyazaki when they both apparently agree about the state of the industry and how it ought to change. Sour grapes? That's a shame, if so.

3. This likely fits best in another topic, but why are adaptations a part of the problem here? I've heard this before and I really don't see why. What was Dragon Ball? Astro Boy? Legend of the Galactic Heroes got started as a series of sci-fi novels. So don't go whining about how Lucky Star is just an animated 4Koma comic, or how Haruhi Suzumiya is adapted from light novels. If you want to be constructive complain about the choices being made, or about the manner in which they are adapted--from what I hear, the Haruhi books are actually not that bad. But don't hurt your case by saying "there's too many adaptations! If we adapt less, things will get better!" That comes off to me as so much ahistorical hogwash.
 
The unsexualized human female who has no interesting qualities is just as bad. Case in point, Balsa , Guardian of the slow and plodding.

Really, entertainment exaggerates. That's what it does. There's a tenuous balance to strike.
 
The innate act of showing skin isn't sexist, but the reason and the context can be (or at least, as mentioned, lazy/horrible writing). For example, if it's a show about a swim team and they're in swim suits, then that makes sense in context. If it's some swimsuit competition episode where the camera focuses on their 'assets' all the time, like in Tenchi or something, then it's quite clearly meant to be a different context. In the case of fanservice characters, you can make the case that the writers are saying 'she's only good for her looks, not her personality or character, which are secondary qualities to her body' which would then be sexist.

This falls on a double standard, unfortunately. Shirtless males don't really have the same 'appeal' for females as a shirtless female does for males, especially when the show is aimed at males to begin with. Guys can be shirtless and have it seem normal, maybe fanservice for the ladies, but still normal overall (like to make a guy look 'badass' or something); but whenever writers make a female topless it's clearly meant to appeal to the male viewers sexually. If they both get in similar 'exposed' situations then I suppose it's 'alright' as long as its equal opportunity (at least they're both being degraded, I guess) Though I detest fan-service, whether its male or female, and will go ahead and assume the females get much more focus than the males do in that department so it's not exactly equal; correct me if I'm wrong.

Aside from the double-standard, I'd say it's the fact that despite the presence of shirtless/whatever males, the writers still can make them decent characters and wont make their body a focus (unless it's some 'boy love' comic or something I guess). Where as with females, most of the time they exist only for the purpose of getting naked and nothing more.
 
Elfen Lied is...well, I've read about what happens in the very first episode. It's nothing I would ever intentionally watch. I won't objectively review it; the point was simply that ARMS stuff is generally very much on the edge.



Actually, no. It's not that simple.

I don't think Sailor Moon is easily dismissed on feminist grounRAB, at least not by us men. Why? Well, for starters it was written by a woman for young girls, and there are most assuredly many fans who only watch it on its own terms. As such, I hope that you would acknowledge as much. Otherwise its legions of fans are, by this logic, closet perverts or self-hating girls.

Sometimes, in the anime, the girls think about getting boyfrienRAB. Sometimes they're also reflecting on their dreams and what they want to do in life. In fact, I have seen the fact observed that the manga version of Rei takes no interest in men whatsoever. In the anime, several episodes focus in on what character X wants to do. Often in the show, a dashing man--Tuxedo Mask--intervenes to save the heroines at key moments. Yet he's also just a supporting character, with the girls wielding the real power.

Can we really say with no doubt that one side is obviously being taken?

But more important than my socratic ranting is the reality that Sailor Moon has actually been cited in Feminist arguments. Two such examples are here and here.

Of particular consequence is the observation that Sailor Moon was actually a huge step forward from the manga of the 1970's:




There's much more if you follow the links. There is no doubt much more that could be said or researched, given enough time to do it. What I am aiming to communicate here is that the issue is not obvious in the slightest. I advocate equality, but we must be very careful to not make hasty generalizations--especially ones that tarnish an entire group of fans. Nor should we make the perfect the enemy of the good and condemn a manga & anime that was both influential and, it seems, also cliche breaking compared to what came before it.
 
I think it goes back to the overriding fact that this guy has been behind alot of the big shows that create what he claims to hate. I know the industry is tough and people often aren't at liberty to just work on their dream projects, but when you've helped create various series which are near unanimously agreed to have just given otaku a new breed of fantasy women to obsess over, how can you then act like you're actually some agent of change?
 
This is a stereotype of modern magical girls. Original series like Mahotsukai Sally, and Mahou no Mako-chan were about girls with powers. After series like Fushigi na Melmo, Cutie Honey, and Majokko Megu-chan the genre was more about transformation scenes and fighting evil (usually all-female).
 
I don't recall Edward stripping on Bebop.

Bebop's one of the less sexist anime out there. For every stereotype Faye fits there's several people in the supporting cast who break it.
 
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