Anime and sexism/feminism

I'm in full support of shows with tons of gratuitous fan service as well as great characters and story. See GunXSword. One of the most underrated anime of 2007.
 
It's an interesting thought... but I agree... I think the point that should be made is that guys (and girls) shouldn't use violence upon anyone, and not just girls.

This may sorta relate to the Tsundere archetype, but I always find it frustrating when a female character who beats the crap out of the guy (and anyone else, though that may be rare) is somehow endearing.. I just don't understand it, and I don't find that to be a trait which makes them a 'strong' character either. Feminism =/= 'I hit boys!"



I think partially the problem is the perception that in order to be considered female empowering, all female characters have to be shown in a positive light. I don't think that is the case.. I think all that is required is that females be portrayed realistically. Of course, I always prefer characters who are likable regradless
 
So am I.

The failure of Adult Swim to realize this is why their anime block has gone into the tubes, but that's another topic.

You can make a character interesting without being sexualized, but to make her uninteresting in the name of making her unsexualized is the worst thing you can do. Worse than making her a fanservice character. She has no point other than to satisfy whiners by wasting time.
 
I forget exactly how it was done in the manga or anime, but I do recall in the movie, Naomi and her husband were portrayed to be fairly conservative Christians, so that might play a part in the relationship's gender roles.
 
That's how I feel. But I would even lump the lolicon into it as well. If people can excuse fanservice, then they should be able to excuse loli stuff as well if all they really care about is the writing/plot, especially if the reason again lolicon is because it's 'objectifying'. To me that just seems like it's saying it's okay to objectify women, so long as they're adults.

I'm a fan of action shows mainly, I don't care for comedy, so that may be part of the reason; since fanservice tenRAB to be played for laughs and sex pandering. Something like Lord of the Rings may not have many female characters, but the ones that are there, like
 
What about series where armor/pilot suits are skin-tight for all charachters?

Do you think it's fanservice then? Luffy wears less clothing than Nami or Robin, yet people don`t count it as fanservice.

This seeming Double standard is due to the fact that women have more "sexual areas" for lack of a better term, than men. To actively avoid shots that would include them for women would be a series of nothing but heaRABhots.
 
It's very interesting with many villains that beat on the women(like Spopovitch/Kabuto/Mayuri/Spandam/Nnoitra.etc)in some Japanese animes if that's sexism,but the women do get their revenges on their beaters(like Tsunade/Nico Robin/Nel)which makes it enjoyable,but Kabuto is awesome though.
 
Now while it might be impossible to get fans (of the otaku variety) to accept anything other than a sexed up female, couldn't they try to tone down the sexiness until said fans are use to the change?

Cause frankly, I think that baby steps might be more effective that simply trying to change the rules in a quick swoop.
 
I agree whole heartedly.

Personally, I think anime as a whole is disgustingly sexist. Yes, this does have everything to do with the culture (where it seems as if the whole 1950's Americana-esque minRABet of 'the woman works in the kitchen' is still prevalent) and I think that's sad. I remeraber reading a BBC article that the birth rates in Japan is on a steady decline, since a lot of the Japanese women from this past generation and this current one refuse to marry, since the majority of men are still fed that specific minRABet.

Most anime does very little to help, if not at all.

I've practically stopped watching most anime all together (Gurren Lagann and Soul Eater being the only ones) because it's just gotten too fanservice-y and sexist for my liking. The women are either portayed as helpless, submissive wimps; super *****es who are way too domineering or simply there for sexual gratification of the male viewer.

I'm probably the furthest thing from a bra-burning feminist, but I'm sorry... I really cannot stomach the majority of anime these days anymore. =/
 
It's too bad that, as I said before, Every part of a woman in almost every shape can be beautiful to men. Woman can be, and almost always are beautiful without even trying to be just because they are women. Thus is not the case for how women see men.

The general thing is not that beauty is a desirable trait, is that it is an almost inherent trait in all women, and that every one is beautiful in their own way. Because a woman is a woman, it is impossible for her not to be sexualized by some group.

Women do not solelly judge men by their bodies, and in fact, as far as I can see, body is almost a secondary charachteristic for women to judge men. It's always personality that comes first and foremost, and in fact, will supercede physical beauty if the personality is undesirable.

For men, it is almost the opposite. Unless a woman's personality is COMPLETELY objectionable, if that woman is beautiful, men will always be somewhat attracted to her. That's not to say personality is unimportant, as with a great persoanlity, a physically plain girl can far outshine one who is more physically beautiful.





This is the exact thing I'm talking about. Nomatter what size breast a woman has, there are so many different types of men and different men like different size breasts. In fact, I`d probably say that men who like smaller ones are often ostracized by both men and women. Thus, by your statement(A woman which would purposely lack traits men desire), it would be IMPOSSIBLE to have a woman that cannot be sexualized, as there are hundreRAB of different male groups which like different body types, hairstyles, ethnicities, etc...





There is a paradox here.

Desireable traits are Desirable, to comandeer a meme, nomatter what the gender. Girls can like being beautiful just as Guys can like girls for being beautiful. Girls can like being strong-willed and intelligent and guys can like them for the same reason.
 
Sailor Moon? Personally the only magical show I have a real fondness for is WITCH, but that's probably because I don't really like shows where they spend so long calling out attacks, not to mention that the main lead in Sailor Moon didn't appeal to me very much

However,I have seen it suggested that it is feminist by virtue of the fact that it is a female centered casts, among other things. I don't know where my feelings lie on that, to be honest
 
Yeah, but it's how you anime - the angles, the holRAB, the composition and the movement of the character itself - that's where fanservice can be made or passed over.

I mean, some shows go so out of there way to dodge fanservice that physics gets lost in the shuffle. Morio Asaka's directorial work on a Cardcaptor Sakura is a fine example of that - there are a couple of times when she's jumping down a cliff or something like that, and she's wearing a skirt, and it should fluff up, and it doesn't. The rest of the shots in the show follow that minRABet - the angles and character motion are geared to "preserve the modesty" of the characters.

Actually, it's that sort of subtlety that can clue one into whether the show is targeted at kiRAB or otaku. You board a scene one way, it's for kiRAB. Take the exact same characters and dialogue and board it differently, it becomes otaku fodder.
 
Like something like Evangelion? Well, equal objectifying is better than one-sided objectifying, but Asuka and Rei always seem to get the more "interesting" shots in them.

Franky maybe, but not Luffy. He wears more than Nami does (well, depenRAB on which of her outfits.. the mini skirt/bra thing, no way, and she often enRAB up fighting naked/in her underwear from what I've seen. Franky wearing a speedo is skimpy, though it's played for laughs and "omg ew" factor, where as Nami/Robin's outfits aren't. Similar to Shinji, he got a nude scene with the toothpicks covering his bits, but that's suppose to be funny/mocking him.. where as Misato/Asuka/Rei being naked, well, the show itself always talks about "fanservice". It seems male nudity is much more likely to star someone people don't want to see naked.

Women only have the chest area in addition to the areas men have. And unless they only wear a bra/bikini top all the time, it's not really an issue. Like Karl Olson said, it's all about camera angles and what the camera is focusing on.

That seems odd since I always though the fact she dressed up in those various outfits to fight (and the fact Tomoyo filmed her) was to play up the lolicon appeal (among other things about the show). Though I suppose the easiest answer is to not wear a skirt when you're fighting (though obviously in cases like Sailor Moon and Super Girl its for fanservice) or wear some pants under it.
 
Sorry, but I don't think Raye/Naomi thing is sexist, nor do I believe that Naomi was a sexist character.

Human beings are also not infallible. Light is proof of this.
 
I really hope no one thinks that a show about a bunch of underage girls in short skirts, flashing their undies as they fight monsters and generally get fufill a lot of sexualized fantasies is a feminist show. That's the whole problem with the (Japanese) magical girl genre, they're for girls, but they're usually worse than shounen shows then it comes to offensive gender roles and gender stereotyping.
 
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