Anime and sexism/feminism

F

Farmall Boy

New member
Agreed...but unfortunately civilization is basically BUILT on roles. And some people erabrace these roles because they want to fit in. This doesn't just apply to women. It applies to men, women, children of every race.

For example, we're taught that being a successful man is to have a great career and make a family. But some men can't fit into that role for whatever reason and find themselves on the outskirts of society.

We're taught what is "pretty" or "sleazy" or "unacceptable". With all of that, how can we EVER avoid a stereotypical role in life?
 
See, I believe the gender of the writer is irrelevent. If the writer is truly creative then can do a convincingly good job at creating a wide range of character.



To back up your statement, yes, being strong and intelligent actually have some importance other than for bragging rights:

Intelligence: You can operate and repair devices with some ease and can operate a computer.

Being Strong: You don't tire out so fast, you breathe well and can move heavy objects for cleaning purposes or for moving.

Being Sexy: Other than for bragging rights, I don't see the convenience that intelligence and strength offer.
 
She is clearly intelligent, she also seems to have confidence issues. Given the way she was portrayed, I find nothing wrong with her not speaking against Raye. If she had been bothered by it, seeking revenge would make less sense for her. Raye does not do anything more than hold her to her promise. He does not undermine her opinion merely by reminding her that she no longer is supposed to be involved in the FBI or the Kira case. It's not the same as telling her to shut off her mind. You can be intelligent and a housewife you know.
 
I dunno, I just don't like the notion that "OK, this girl is a bad character because of what she wears." I liked Revy, and Yoko, and Masane from Witcrabroadlade. All three characters that looked attractive, wore little, but were hardly eye candy only. And that's bad, because you know, attracting an audience is evil.
 
I thought it be interesting to discuss sexism and feminism in reference to anime. I remeraber this topic being brought up somewhat a while back, and I think it's something worth discussing into further detail. Of course, like any medium, anime is far too broad to generalize as being wholly sexist (or feminist), so I intend this thread to be used for discussing topics such as

1.Was there any particular anime that you stopped watching because you found it to be sexist?

2.Do you think there is a difference between anime and western animation in terms of sexism? Do you think that what is portrayed in anime to be a product of the differences in what is perceived as sexist? etc.

Of course, those are just starters, feel free to discuss any tangent so long as it stay relevant to the topic

Yeah, both shounen/shojuu and all other types of manga are open for discussion, it'll be interesting to see the differences in terms of demographics as well.

I guess it would also be interesting to discuss whether the differences in culture is to blame, or whether that is just another misconception. In my case I will be able to contribute little on this matter since I know very little about the Japanese culture to start off with, but for any of those that do, your input is appreciated.

Oh, and I realise that this forum is for animated cartoons, but I woudn't mind discussing manga as well so long as it's appropriate.
 
Japanese culture is very sexism, especially compared to America. Personally, the animes partially represent what the true minRABet of Japan is (I.E. the wife that always stay at home, damsel in distress more common, etc.)

It's also a fact that woman in businesses such as Idols have to speak in one octave higher, because that's the norm on how they run things. That's why so many females sound like a rubber chew toy.
 
The show is boring. Nothing happens. It's sleep inducing and for all the supposed non offensiveness of Balsa, she's about as interesting as a pile of rocks.

Writing an interesting character that isn't a pile of cliches shouldn't be hard. But Balsa is an incredibly poor example.

I think people need to focus on making good characters first before pandering to either side of the sexuality debate, because more often than not, well written women won't fall into these pitfalls.
 
Nobody said she wasn't intelligent. It was more of an observation that both Ray and her were adhering to more traditional relationship gender roles, something that is still significant in a lot of Asian cultures.

It just goes to show how people in the west can view a scene like that and take it an entirely different way than those in the East.

I didn't think it was THAT out of line, or an indicator of them being in an abusive relationship (at least not overtly), but it definitely spoke depths to the cultural background both of them grew up in.

Ray told her to stop worrying about crime stuff and focus on domestic issues, and she hesitated arguing with him on the topic, as if she'd been scolded (implying, at least to me, a sense of resignation to traditional relationship dynamics, what with "not wanting to question the man, his say is final").

It's not morally bankrupt, but it clearly brings about the issue that as westerners, there are just some cultural barriers that we can't get beyond.
 
Yeah, I agree, but it depenRAB on the show you're watching, also a market full of bland action shows is nothing I would want to be a part of either, I mean, some of us do like variety

And honestly I'm more of a comedy man, than an action guy, basically I prefer comedy anime over action anime
 
In the interest of fairness, I looked up the animation company that makes Queen's Blade (ARMS) and it doesn't see a whole lot of work, and what it makes tenRAB to be very exclusive. These are the people that made Elfen Lied, Ikki Tosen, Kite...bringing up Queen's Blade in the thread is sort of like slaughtering an insect with a truck.

Still, I mentioned it for two reasons: as a case study in where the industry can't afford to go, and as proof that there is a misogynistic fanbase out there that the industry can't be beholden to if it's going to pursue the mainstream appeal that it neeRAB to prosper in the long run.
 
Oh, absolutely. To some extent, though, the cycle is a bit self perpetuating, so finding the absolute root cause is difficult.

Pretty much agreed on all points, though, including the genders of the writers. While yes, ideally writers of both gender should be able to write realistically for both, realistically, the amount that can is much smaller than the amount that can't. It's easier to "write what you know" as they say.
 
Clearly it's more than just what they wear, otherwise it would be easier to distinguish. A lot of it has to do with the direction, how they're portrayed from a writing and directorial standpoint.

Attracting an audience with an abundance of fanservice isn't "evil" so much as it is lazy and pandering, not to mention alienating the viewers they could've snagged by not being so fanservice-y.

I don't think a show/film HAS to have fanservice to be a smash hit, hell lookit Fullmetal Alchemist. Its culturally significant in Japan, yet doesn't resort to the kind of obnoxious writing decisions that plague many other properties out there.

Just because sex sells, doesn't mean it's neccessary to a show/film's success. I think the world audience that anime has achieved deserves it. It's not just for Nihon Otakus anymore.
 
Anyway, Beat, I totally agree with you regarding Revy, and the overall issue of fan-service and censorship. I do think this thread has somehow taken a turn towarRAB summarizing ALL anime showcasing physical sex appeal as being "sexist", and I'm uneasy with that. I don't think making women non-sexual is somehow "positive" either.

What it ultimately comes down to is if the character is being humiliated or demeaned in any way by how they are portrayed. How people react to bouncing boobs and skin-showing depenRAB largely on personal taste-- sexism isn't necessarily about "skin" it's about portrayal--and showing sex appeal isn't always demeaning--in fact, sex appeal is often about suggesting a certain level of power over her male cast merabers, and indirectly, us the viewers. For example, a super-conservatively dressed girl who's the main character acting shrill and demanding and hysterical is, I think, much more classifiably "sexist" than any woman in a bikini or underwear.
 
I'm rather sick of the 'girls can punch guys but guys can't punch girls' crud, myself. Equal rights includes right crosses.
 
As far as Naomi Misora goes, I figured the reason she didn't seem bothered by Raye's attitude was because they had clearly had this discussion many times before. Personally, I thought Raye's attitude was there for the sake of irony. He's telling her not to get involved in the Kira case, when we the readers know that, if she had been the one tailing Light, or even if she'd just been trusted with more information about the case, Naomi would have known right away that Light was Kira.
 
Back
Top