Add dish or get a bigger one?

B

baxter

New member
I currently have a 20 inch dish set up running (4) lines (2 for 82 and 2 for 91). Seems like I have got some fade issues on 82. Drops down below 50 % on just about all transponders when raining or cloudy. I have a second dish from my 9242 purchase. Is it better to get a bigger dish or run one 20 inch for 91 and one 20 inch for 82? Sure like only having one dish though. (I live out on Vancouver Island).
 
Using a second 20" dish will make no difference in the signal. You need a larger oval dish or two larger round dishes. 24" and 30" round dishes are relatively easy to find. You might need a couple of DirecTV dual DBS LNBs since the Dish/EV LNBs don't fit a lot of other dishes. Dish/EV 24" dishes were once fairly common but are more difficult to find now.

Channel Master GainMaster oval dishes also work well (using DirecTV LNBs) but can be difficult to obtain in Canada. I have a *C 75cm dish with a FlexiBlock adapter. It works well but is a PITA to set up compared to the other solutions.
 
I use Two 33" dishes. Tons of signal.
And the EVu LNB's fit just perfect after you tear off the stupid plastic cover.

Hardly ever get rain fade, but when they collect snow, they really collect snow.
 
How could having a second dish to have each point directly at a Sat not improve signal quality thereby lessening the effect of rain fade? There is a trade off using one dish to get both Sats, but is is better in the east to sacrifice signal on 91 to assure better signal on 82. Not sure about the west but I can't imagine the situation out there is any better.
In other words if the OP is starting out with a 70% signal on 82, it's not going to take much to knock it off the air as if he was starting out with a signal of 95%. Won't eliminate rain fade completely, but will sure help.
Perhaps his dish just needs tweaking though to improve signal on 82
 
2 x 20" dishs are definitely better than a single 20" dish. Granted, a 24"+ is definitely better than a 20" if available. When peaking the signals from the 2 sats, you are always compromising a couple of percentage points to get a good even rating between the 2 feeds.

I'd even argue that 2 x 18" dishes are better than a single 20", but I like to argue :)
 
This has been discussed many times
I only have a single dish, and rarely have rain fade
I guess I was lucky, and had it peaked by a pro, as my signal averages in the 80's on both satellites (on a clear day)
There is only so much you can do, if it is raining really hard, it wont matter how big your dish is, you will lose signal
If it makes you feel better, and gives you piece of mind, then grab a couple of bigger dishes, and aim 1 for each satellite
I would also try and eliminate any couplers (joined pieces of cable) that are un necessary
Each additional connection causes a bit of signal loss
Quad shielded cable is also supposed to reduce loss, but is more expensive that the bigger dish route
Good luck, and let us know how it turns out
 
Those who live in the east have no idea of the trouble us out here on the wet coast have picking up a good signal on 82, no matter how professionally the 20" dish is installed. I'd suggest you look around for a 24" or 30" dish. I have one of each and rarely lose my signal now.
 
Which 30 + inch dish will work with my current bell LNBs or what setup do I need and where to get it? I dont want to have to rip, tear, or wire up anything to make this work. I see that there is Winegard dishes but don't know whether these will work. Thanks.
 
the dishnetwork superdish is 36" by 24" elliptical. is very good for 2-3 birds. :D
 
Keep in mind the geography; as that is the big difference here. In southern Ontario you have almost a direct shot at the Bell birds, so virtually no skew. Add to that being further south there is less atmosphere (and therefore less cloud matter) to shoot through than those of us in Western Canada.

I run an 18" dish for my 91 (it was on the house and aimed when I moved in) and a 20" dish for 82. I never experience rain fade unless there's also hail involved.

Baxter, seeing as you already have the other dish, I would set it up. Yes you could go bigger, but IMHO that is a waste of money with next to no difference in signal strength.
 
33" dishes are easy easy to find on ebay, or one of the digitalhome.ca site ads has them.
I have 95 to 100 % on most tarnsponders on both sats. All I had to do was take the plastic cover off the EVu (dishnet) LNB.
 
The only way to get a stronger signal is with a bigger dish. A 30" dish can boost the signal strength by 10 and almost eliminate signal loss due to rain fade. Two 20" provide no improvement over a single properly aimed single 20" dish.

Anyone who says different is unfamiliar with the laws of physics and the experience of everyone I have ever discussed the issue with. That includes installers with many years of experience.
 
OK, I would like to hear you explain the physics behind that, IWM_HDTV.

Especially for those of us out west with a significant skew on our dishes. Because in my experience with aiming dishes out west, there is always a certain level of compromise between the signal strength of the two birds.

However being in Calgary and requiring almost no skew for my Dish Network system, I would tend to agree that the dish is designed to bring in both satellites very well.
 
I am willing to give up a day at work in the GTA to go on a professional install to see this in practice. I would love to see the 20" dish pointed directly at 91 to an optimum signal of perhaps 98% and then the pointed at 82 to an optimum signal of say 92% and then see the installer skew the dish to get both of the satellites at each optimum strength. I say it can't be done here in Ontario but will definitely eat crow if I see this to be the case.
No doubt a professional installer will say any signal over 80% is acceptable so don't sweat the small stuff. This is not the same as saying that two dishes are not better than one skewed one.
 
Larger parabolic dishes have higher gain because they capture and focus the signal from a larger area. That provides a stronger signal. Doubling the area provides 3db more gain and doubles the signal strength.


Maybe I should have qualified that more to include correctly designed and installed dish as well as correctly aimed. Even in Ontario, there is a difference between the location seen for even and odd transponders on the same satellite. Compounding that with two or more satellites and skew compounds the complexity of aiming the dish correctly. So if you start getting too fussy with a crappy dish like EV's, you are going to think it is impossible to aim properly. I have no doubt that EV dishes are more difficult to set up in BC. OTOH, if both LNBs are adjusted to be in the right spot and the skew is correct, there will be no difference between an EV 20" dish with 1 or 2 LNBs. Oval, multiple LNB dishes are not optimal. That's why Dish/EV went from an 18" dish with one LNB to a 20" dish with two LNBs. (Parabolic dishes have only 1 focal point so multiple LNB dishes always operate with a modified curve, poorly located LNBs and lower gain.) That gain does not improve by removing one LNB. It will improve by using a true single LNB dish or a larger dish.
 
I guess at the end of the day we can all pretty much agree on the following points:

- Nobody should notice any sort of "cloud fade" with any satellite system.
- The OP has two dishes in his possession.
- While technically it should be possible to get one dish aimed correctly for both satellites, it is way easier to just set up two dishes; each aiming at one bird.

So, yes. There are options like tweaking the skew, elevation, etc. There's also the other option of spending $50 on a much bigger dish to give better reception. However the low cost and easy option of setting up two dishes should help him get rid of the cloud fade issue.
 
I was told by an installer on the telephone that I should wait for the new satellite going up this year in the 82 degree position as this may strengthen the signal on the HD channels. I had quite a bit of rain fade this winter and was going to install an extra dish but now I am waiting for this new satellite. I believe the satellite was/is supposed to be launched in the first half of 2008 but I don't think its happened yet.
 
http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/2008.html

Nimiq 4 has no set date but looks like it might be going up in July or August
 
That depends on the cloud. We get a few thunderclouds here that block the signal with any dish (including 10' or larger.). A bigger dish will reduce the number and length of signal losses.
 
Just finished putting up a 27" dish for 82 and it boosted my signal numbers by about 20-25 points across the board. I still find the transponders vary by as much as 20 points from the weakest (78) to the strongest (100)

On a side note I was wondering if anybody is having trouble with a couple transponders on 91. For the most part I have all transponders at 70+ on 91, but there are 1 or 2 that are substantially lower then the rest. I can't remember the numer off hand, but there were some that stuck out like a sore thumb from the transponders just above and below. My thought was that this must be a problem with the satellite if it is a gross difference from adjacent transponders, so I didn't bother trying to aim the dish.
 
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