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103 Hard Starting PLEASE POST HERE
- Thread starter Mairéad
- Start date
bobbybrown
New member
I have a 103" Stage III and have only had 1 experience with hard starting. That instance was on a warmer day and the motor was fairly warm as well.
pink.tutu95
New member
That I don't know. I'd call them and ask. I do know they have fixes for their larger starters that won't normally fit. From what I've read, it seems the clearance problems usually involve the oil filler spout and/or the oil lines depending on the model of the bike. Honestly, I don't see any reason why you'd have to go to the 2.0. Their 1.8 is less than an inch longer than stock. I'd see what they recommend.
koolerthantim
New member
Having your starter kick back isn't good and will eventually cause you serious grief (and $$$). Whether with compression releases and/or a high-torque starter, the problem really has to be addressed.
Johan Abraham
New member
I bought my bike with the street legal 103" kit installed. It would start fine when it was cold, but the warmer it was, the harder it was to start.
The dealer I bought the bike from replaced the starter clutch at 5,000 miles. I am not sure why they did that. There was no indication that the starter cluctch was the problem, but that's what they did.
At 8,000 miles, I had the high compression pistons and SE 103+ heads added with the compression releases. This was done at a different dealer. One I found that came highly recommended by several people in my area.
This tech told me that he was almost certain my start up timing was most of the problem. The problem was still there, but didn't show up unless the bike was really hot.
I was very confused about what was going on. I was trying to determine exactly what was causing it and how to fix it for good. I read on here to try hitting the starter as soon as the ignition is turned on. (Don't wait for the engine light to go out) I couldn't see how that could possibly help, but I tried it anyway. It works every time for me. No more hard starting problems just by starting up as soon as the ingnition is turned on.
I called the guy who did my last motor work and tune to ask him his thoughts on this. He said it makes perfect sense to him. He says I don't have enough cranking fuel. He said to bring it back to him when I can and he can very quickly and easily make a change to my cranking fuel table with my sert and that will be that. For now, I just hit the starter right away and there is no problem. I have ridden over 1,000 short hopping miles since I started this starting procedure and have started the bike dozens of times in all conditions.
I have posted this in several hard starting threads and many make fun of it or dismiss it as bs. But many people have pm'ed me and thanked me for sharing this because it has solved their hard starting problems but didn't want to post it on the open forum because there seems to be so much resistance. Someone even posted the page out of the sert manual that explains this situation and how adding more cranking fuel will solve the problem.
But some will still insist that I have a piston dragging or I need a heavier duty starter. What is going on with my bike might not be your particular problem, but it will cost you nothing to warm your bike up and give it a try before you install compression releases or change starters.
Dennis
The dealer I bought the bike from replaced the starter clutch at 5,000 miles. I am not sure why they did that. There was no indication that the starter cluctch was the problem, but that's what they did.
At 8,000 miles, I had the high compression pistons and SE 103+ heads added with the compression releases. This was done at a different dealer. One I found that came highly recommended by several people in my area.
This tech told me that he was almost certain my start up timing was most of the problem. The problem was still there, but didn't show up unless the bike was really hot.
I was very confused about what was going on. I was trying to determine exactly what was causing it and how to fix it for good. I read on here to try hitting the starter as soon as the ignition is turned on. (Don't wait for the engine light to go out) I couldn't see how that could possibly help, but I tried it anyway. It works every time for me. No more hard starting problems just by starting up as soon as the ingnition is turned on.
I called the guy who did my last motor work and tune to ask him his thoughts on this. He said it makes perfect sense to him. He says I don't have enough cranking fuel. He said to bring it back to him when I can and he can very quickly and easily make a change to my cranking fuel table with my sert and that will be that. For now, I just hit the starter right away and there is no problem. I have ridden over 1,000 short hopping miles since I started this starting procedure and have started the bike dozens of times in all conditions.
I have posted this in several hard starting threads and many make fun of it or dismiss it as bs. But many people have pm'ed me and thanked me for sharing this because it has solved their hard starting problems but didn't want to post it on the open forum because there seems to be so much resistance. Someone even posted the page out of the sert manual that explains this situation and how adding more cranking fuel will solve the problem.
But some will still insist that I have a piston dragging or I need a heavier duty starter. What is going on with my bike might not be your particular problem, but it will cost you nothing to warm your bike up and give it a try before you install compression releases or change starters.
Dennis
If a starter is dragging or using too many amps to turn over may very well be a cause. Carbon on the windings or solinoid plate or corrosion in the terminals or wiring will cause it. Not to mention a weaker battery internals. I have to argue this case of comp releases, as this could be a bandaid on this issue. I have a 103 with no issues over 15k miles. Elictrical system condition and maintenance plays a major part of these issues. Has everyone looked and made sure their electrical systems are 100% correct before blaming the builds?
You bring up excellent points, bagman1. What might be 'good enough' in the case of a bone-stock motor might fall on its face when output needs increase.
One thing I failed to mention earlier is that if you do get to the point with your build where the stock starter just isn't going to work for you, in addition to a high-torque starter, other things you'll want to do are 1. get a heavy-duty starter-to-battery cable and 2. keep your battery fully charged. Since I began having my starting problems, I've gotten into the habit of keeping my plugged into the Battery Tender whenever it's parked in the garage.
One thing I failed to mention earlier is that if you do get to the point with your build where the stock starter just isn't going to work for you, in addition to a high-torque starter, other things you'll want to do are 1. get a heavy-duty starter-to-battery cable and 2. keep your battery fully charged. Since I began having my starting problems, I've gotten into the habit of keeping my plugged into the Battery Tender whenever it's parked in the garage.
Lara maree
New member
Dennis,
I'm no expert and don't pretend to be, but I am a big believer in the idea of "if it works for you, use it." As long as you've found a solution to your problem, whatever it is, that's all that counts and screw anyone who doesn't like it because it isn't 'their' solution.
I'm no expert and don't pretend to be, but I am a big believer in the idea of "if it works for you, use it." As long as you've found a solution to your problem, whatever it is, that's all that counts and screw anyone who doesn't like it because it isn't 'their' solution.
I have read, and reread this thread. hd0wner, you don't indicate what the CR is for your engine. Others that are chiming in saying they dont have any problems with their 103's, what is your CR, and for all of you what is your CCP? You can have a 12:1 engine with a long duration/overlap cam that still only has a CCP of 170lbs, easily spun over by a stock starter. In my bike, short duration/overlap cam has the CCP up around 220, so very hard to crank without compression releases. A blanket statement that all 103's should crank without releases is way off the mark, you have other variables.
The 255 cam is a shorter duration cam and will raise CCP. Heavy duty starters can be a fix until you get to a hard start and must crank it for more than a couple of revolutions. At that point the battery will die and the cables will overheat. If you dont go with a heavier duty battery and cables, you are setting yourself up for eventual problems.
Compression releases are the way to go and have been the standard in the industry for years, and even HD has heads predrilled for them and has an automatic system in place. I have 30k miles on my bike, and still spinning this 120 with the original stock starter without any issues, and have been all over the US in all temps and at all elevations.
Do some more research, CCP is the issue, not CR.
The 255 cam is a shorter duration cam and will raise CCP. Heavy duty starters can be a fix until you get to a hard start and must crank it for more than a couple of revolutions. At that point the battery will die and the cables will overheat. If you dont go with a heavier duty battery and cables, you are setting yourself up for eventual problems.
Compression releases are the way to go and have been the standard in the industry for years, and even HD has heads predrilled for them and has an automatic system in place. I have 30k miles on my bike, and still spinning this 120 with the original stock starter without any issues, and have been all over the US in all temps and at all elevations.
Do some more research, CCP is the issue, not CR.