I ride a Suzuki vz 800 marauder pretty much the sportster for Suzuki, it's an 800 I haven't seen any 1200 Harley that can even hang in the quarter mile or in the corners and some of the bigger bikes still can't keep up, so what's the hype? My buddy has a Harley and it has to be fixed every few thousand miles. I have 80k and I'm still running strong just rebuilt my carbs and sprockets. And what's with the timing on them? They sound like my old truck when my timing was off and only five cylinders were firing? Do they time them for three?
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Why do people make Harley-davidsons out to be so great?
- Thread starter Caleb
- Start date
ninebadthings
New member
Ok, you have a knock off of a gucci bag that is better than a real Gucci bag. It's still just a copy of the real thing.
A cruiser is more fashion accessory and status symbol than motorcycle. Non of them are good motorcycles and yours isn't the status symbol or fashion statement that the real harley is. And it doesn't have the performance that a real motorcycle has.
Is a Rolls Royce a good car? No, it sucks. Heavy as hell, expensive, no acceleration, cant corner, hard to park, can't take it off-road, can't haul stuff. Only thing it is good for is a status symbol for people who are into status and not into cars that perform. Is a slightly cheaper, slightly better performing copy of a Rolls Royce a good car? Is it a substitute for a Rolls Royce?
Compared to a non vtwin cruiser your bike has horrible performance. A Suzuki 650 Vstrom is so much better than your bike (close to double the horsepower) and the 1000 version is far and away better.
Sorry but on the cruiser playing field, a playing field where performance isn't important but a name is, your bike loses. As a performance motorcycle, your bike loses.
Is Gucci a good bag? I doubt if it is all that. Probably just the Rolls Royce of bags. I'm more in the market for a backpack, a much more useful and higher performing bag. But Gucci is the name brand. If you copy it and use better thread, it is still just a copy of the name brand, not the real thing.
Bikinkaw....If Colt only made reproductions of their black powder guns, advertised and hyped them as #1, and cultivated a cult following through hugh bucks spent on Madison Ave, if they charged more for their antique reproductions than other companies charge for current technology, if fat middle aged colt fanatics all dressed up like costume shop gunfighters sporting the attatude on city streets shooting blanks all over town, you would have yourself a great parallel.
Black powder guns are inexpensive, mostly home built kits. They are fun, they are antique reproductions, they don't claim to be #1, they don't claim any kind of superiority, they are not a status symbol. I have a 50cal Hawkins that I built when I was 16 laying around the house somewhere, the kit was less than $100. I gave it a browned rather then blued barrel and a hand rubbed tung oil finish on the stock. I also hallowed out a stinky bulls horn real thin and polished it with mineral oil, you can see the level of the powder through it.. The Hawkin shoots real good for up to 100 yards. Used to have a reproduction of a colt Dragoon, heavy as hell. About 1/8 the price of a nice Desert Eagle. Sadly a harley isn't 1/8 the price of a Gold Wing, that would be a fair value, the harley folks are actually asking about $10K more for that antique reproduction.
You analogy kind of falls apart in the attitude of the harley owners vs the attitude of black powder shooters, also in the relative prices of the old vs new technology.
A cruiser is more fashion accessory and status symbol than motorcycle. Non of them are good motorcycles and yours isn't the status symbol or fashion statement that the real harley is. And it doesn't have the performance that a real motorcycle has.
Is a Rolls Royce a good car? No, it sucks. Heavy as hell, expensive, no acceleration, cant corner, hard to park, can't take it off-road, can't haul stuff. Only thing it is good for is a status symbol for people who are into status and not into cars that perform. Is a slightly cheaper, slightly better performing copy of a Rolls Royce a good car? Is it a substitute for a Rolls Royce?
Compared to a non vtwin cruiser your bike has horrible performance. A Suzuki 650 Vstrom is so much better than your bike (close to double the horsepower) and the 1000 version is far and away better.
Sorry but on the cruiser playing field, a playing field where performance isn't important but a name is, your bike loses. As a performance motorcycle, your bike loses.
Is Gucci a good bag? I doubt if it is all that. Probably just the Rolls Royce of bags. I'm more in the market for a backpack, a much more useful and higher performing bag. But Gucci is the name brand. If you copy it and use better thread, it is still just a copy of the name brand, not the real thing.
Bikinkaw....If Colt only made reproductions of their black powder guns, advertised and hyped them as #1, and cultivated a cult following through hugh bucks spent on Madison Ave, if they charged more for their antique reproductions than other companies charge for current technology, if fat middle aged colt fanatics all dressed up like costume shop gunfighters sporting the attatude on city streets shooting blanks all over town, you would have yourself a great parallel.
Black powder guns are inexpensive, mostly home built kits. They are fun, they are antique reproductions, they don't claim to be #1, they don't claim any kind of superiority, they are not a status symbol. I have a 50cal Hawkins that I built when I was 16 laying around the house somewhere, the kit was less than $100. I gave it a browned rather then blued barrel and a hand rubbed tung oil finish on the stock. I also hallowed out a stinky bulls horn real thin and polished it with mineral oil, you can see the level of the powder through it.. The Hawkin shoots real good for up to 100 yards. Used to have a reproduction of a colt Dragoon, heavy as hell. About 1/8 the price of a nice Desert Eagle. Sadly a harley isn't 1/8 the price of a Gold Wing, that would be a fair value, the harley folks are actually asking about $10K more for that antique reproduction.
You analogy kind of falls apart in the attitude of the harley owners vs the attitude of black powder shooters, also in the relative prices of the old vs new technology.
Harley just asks that you believe that they are the best bike on the road. Then, they do nothing to actually be the best. All marketing. When I go to the store to buy cereal I see the Kellogs brand, Post, and then I see General mills cereals in bags and no box that cost less per ounce than the ones that come in a box. Harleys are the ones that come with a box. But, it has half the cereal as the japanees bikes. Look at the top of the line Harley. It costs $36499 and is designed to run 100,000 miles. People tell you that harleys hold their value. But, have you ever asked why. Because the person that pays $36499 for that Harley also has a trailer and a ford truck. He trailers that harley to every bike rally from Texas to Sturgis. After 10 years it has less than 10,000 miles. People that really want to ride will buy a Honda Goldwing for $28499. For $8000 less. Now, this bike is designed to run 200,000 miles. Twice as long as the Harley. But, when I go to rally's I don't see Honda Goldwings on trailers. I see them being ridden from Texas to Sturgis. So, after 10 years the Goldwing has 200,000 miles on it. Then, the Harley owner says,"Harleys hold their value better than Honda's" Check it out for yourself at KBB.com/motorcycle A honda with the same miles depreciates less than a harley. But, Harley owners are mostly Doctors, lawyers, bankers, and the like that want to believe that they are bad. When in reality they trailer around their harley like it is a piece of jewelry.
Your question was not really a question "Why do people make Harley-davidsons out to be so great?"... You ask "why do people". OK, what people? Is this Yahoo Opinion Poll or do you just want rag on about H-D versus another bike? (which is the most tiresome, mind numbing non-controversy that has gone on ever since the beginning of the rise of morons). And yes please inform us about sprocket re-building. Then perhaps you can tell us the amount of torque you apply to your numb nuts.
bikinkawboy
New member
I see an analogy here (if you don't know what that means, then look it up). There's lots of modern, good performing hunting rifles on the market, but there's idiots out there that shoot black powder, the same stuff Danial Boone used! The same with handguns, there's superb Glocks but then there's more idiots that shoot old style Colt 45's or Colt replicas. Don't these fools know a Glock will beat a Colt in every fashion??? And there's even more idiots that use a bow and arrow to hunt with! That's what Indians used!!! And let's not forget the fools who dress up like Civil War soldiers and shoot at each other and other people dress up like cowboys and Indians! Why not dress up in the latest infrared blocking camouflage like real live, modern soldiers wear? Oh, my daughter wears that stuff because she's in the Air Force. Since she's a woman and not a man, I guess that makes her a poser? No such luck, I bet she could whoop any of your a$$es out there.
I don't ride Harleys and don't care to, I ride Kawasakis. But how about you childish morons try to accept the fact that maybe people do what they do because that's what they like doing? And there's nothing wrong with someone else not liking what you or I like. Whether it's hunting with a bow and arrow, black powder rifle, dressing up in period reenactment clothing or riding a retro bike, how about you 1st graders grow up and let others ride what they want to? And don't forget, it's none of your damn business of what others ride, so mind your own business.
I don't ride Harleys and don't care to, I ride Kawasakis. But how about you childish morons try to accept the fact that maybe people do what they do because that's what they like doing? And there's nothing wrong with someone else not liking what you or I like. Whether it's hunting with a bow and arrow, black powder rifle, dressing up in period reenactment clothing or riding a retro bike, how about you 1st graders grow up and let others ride what they want to? And don't forget, it's none of your damn business of what others ride, so mind your own business.
Adam Stein
New member
how many 47,58,61, or whatever yesteryear jap bikes do you see on the road? I see old Harley's from the 50s and 60s and 70s all the time.Nuff said. I ride a 61 panhead and its BUILT any time you wanna race light to light for pinks bring it. I also own and ride triumphs,Honda's and Yamaha's so don't get it in your head that i dont have a clue.
It is something akin to the New York Yankees to a Yankees fan. Yes, there are other baseball teams and some years they are better than the Yankees, but try as hard as they can they will never be the Yankees. If riding with the HOG (Harley Owners Group) is your desire, then you probably will never do it on anything but a Harley. Really, a stock Harley is nothing but a starter kit, a blank canvass ready for the artist. You have infinite options for making it your own, different from everyone else. In my opinion, not worth the money.
It's like all the guys who still think Marilyn Monroe is the finest woman alive- they just will not let themselve see anything else- and don't tell them Marilyn died years ago.
I used to go Harley Hunting on my Jap Bike on the weekends. I quit doing that after getting invited to ride with them after showing them tailight every race. I woke up a realized I couldn't get sh!t faced and ride 400 miles without a care like they always did.
Riding Harleys will make you a real good mechanic or a broke rider.
I used to go Harley Hunting on my Jap Bike on the weekends. I quit doing that after getting invited to ride with them after showing them tailight every race. I woke up a realized I couldn't get sh!t faced and ride 400 miles without a care like they always did.
Riding Harleys will make you a real good mechanic or a broke rider.
Candid Chris
New member
There are almost 7 Billion people on this planet, so my opinion about Harley Davidson could only account for about .0000000002%. ( my wife added her $.02).
It's not the bike, its the image. Its a well known fact that all the biker gangs are dangerous criminals, and nobody wants to mess with a bunch of outlaws not even the police. Now people that want to feel some muscle, pose as a gang member. The same bike, the same close,the same attitude. Its very difficult for most people to tell the difference. I rode a Harley across Canada,and I almost worshiped my Hayabusa when I took it out after I came home. Now this is a motorcycle! It doesn't feel like a couple of farmer welded it together and threw in a miss firing Briggs and Stratton. It feels like it had world class engineers designing it.
I bought a Sportster because I was so impressed with my Buell that I thought I'd give a "real Harley" a try. I bought the 2005 Sportster 1200 Roadster, which semed to be the best-performing Harley overall, with dual discs up front, cast wheels and the footpegs below the seat, where they belong. When I told the H-D salesman from whom I had bought it that I was selling it a few months later, I explained that I had bought the bike but not the H-D religion, he said, "Yeah, sometimes that happens".
Some choose to drink the Kool-Aid; others don't.
Some choose to drink the Kool-Aid; others don't.
HD has been around a long time and made some great bikes over the years. Problem is that you now have a lot of foreign competition that makes better performing, cheaper and more appealing models to various demographics.
One of the main reasons that HD is still very popular is due to mass ignorance. They simply fail to look into the competition for their own reason ands generally overpay for something that is not at all what they believe it to be.
People who buy a HD because "there is simply nothing like a HD" usually buy into the image, think that is is 100% made in America or believe it to be the most durable of all motorcycles. If you like the image then more power to you. However, It isnt 100% American made, not even close, and durability is always subjective.
Performance of HD's is and has always been lousy. Its one of the main reasons I would never buy another. You get people who say "I didnt buy my HD for power/performance" or "I got the speed thing out of my blood years ago" and I laugh every time someone says it. Performace of HD is a huge after market money maker because the first thing a HD owner does is tro to get more power. The marketing of HD is absolutely brilliant because they sell an underpowered machine for a huge amount of money and then get the same people to dump more money into it to try to get adequate performance.
"Ignorance is bliss"
EDIT....
Its so funny when people who support HD reply and get all defensive. Same old arguments, just like the bikes, that are 50 years old. "I know how to rebuild a bike" or "I have seen bikes on the road from the 50's". The arguments are never new and are always invalid. I see tons of cars on the road by my house that are from the 60's and 70s that people restore with huge motors and tires and are huge pieces of crapp. I hate the argument that "I can fix my bike anytime, anywhere..."because its another defensive and illegitmate argument. I never got into motorcycles because I wanted to be a mechanic. Im a network engineer and got into mototcycles because it was fun. I got a lot of bad info and bought a HD for my first bike. I was smart enough to dump it and buy something else that actually had integrated technology (like being liquid cooled!!!), was cheaper, performed better and didnt look like something from thr 50's.
Again, its all about ignorance. Listen to the rants and the word "ignorance" best describes people who keep buying HD's.
Lastly, Byron, you dont rebuild sprockets. You replace them... lol.
One of the main reasons that HD is still very popular is due to mass ignorance. They simply fail to look into the competition for their own reason ands generally overpay for something that is not at all what they believe it to be.
People who buy a HD because "there is simply nothing like a HD" usually buy into the image, think that is is 100% made in America or believe it to be the most durable of all motorcycles. If you like the image then more power to you. However, It isnt 100% American made, not even close, and durability is always subjective.
Performance of HD's is and has always been lousy. Its one of the main reasons I would never buy another. You get people who say "I didnt buy my HD for power/performance" or "I got the speed thing out of my blood years ago" and I laugh every time someone says it. Performace of HD is a huge after market money maker because the first thing a HD owner does is tro to get more power. The marketing of HD is absolutely brilliant because they sell an underpowered machine for a huge amount of money and then get the same people to dump more money into it to try to get adequate performance.
"Ignorance is bliss"
EDIT....
Its so funny when people who support HD reply and get all defensive. Same old arguments, just like the bikes, that are 50 years old. "I know how to rebuild a bike" or "I have seen bikes on the road from the 50's". The arguments are never new and are always invalid. I see tons of cars on the road by my house that are from the 60's and 70s that people restore with huge motors and tires and are huge pieces of crapp. I hate the argument that "I can fix my bike anytime, anywhere..."because its another defensive and illegitmate argument. I never got into motorcycles because I wanted to be a mechanic. Im a network engineer and got into mototcycles because it was fun. I got a lot of bad info and bought a HD for my first bike. I was smart enough to dump it and buy something else that actually had integrated technology (like being liquid cooled!!!), was cheaper, performed better and didnt look like something from thr 50's.
Again, its all about ignorance. Listen to the rants and the word "ignorance" best describes people who keep buying HD's.
Lastly, Byron, you dont rebuild sprockets. You replace them... lol.
HD has been around a long time and made some great bikes over the years. Problem is that you now have a lot of foreign competition that makes better performing, cheaper and more appealing models to various demographics.
One of the main reasons that HD is still very popular is due to mass ignorance. They simply fail to look into the competition for their own reason ands generally overpay for something that is not at all what they believe it to be.
People who buy a HD because "there is simply nothing like a HD" usually buy into the image, think that is is 100% made in America or believe it to be the most durable of all motorcycles. If you like the image then more power to you. However, It isnt 100% American made, not even close, and durability is always subjective.
Performance of HD's is and has always been lousy. Its one of the main reasons I would never buy another. You get people who say "I didnt buy my HD for power/performance" or "I got the speed thing out of my blood years ago" and I laugh every time someone says it. Performace of HD is a huge after market money maker because the first thing a HD owner does is tro to get more power. The marketing of HD is absolutely brilliant because they sell an underpowered machine for a huge amount of money and then get the same people to dump more money into it to try to get adequate performance.
"Ignorance is bliss"
EDIT....
Its so funny when people who support HD reply and get all defensive. Same old arguments, just like the bikes, that are 50 years old. "I know how to rebuild a bike" or "I have seen bikes on the road from the 50's". The arguments are never new and are always invalid. I see tons of cars on the road by my house that are from the 60's and 70s that people restore with huge motors and tires and are huge pieces of crapp. I hate the argument that "I can fix my bike anytime, anywhere..."because its another defensive and illegitmate argument. I never got into motorcycles because I wanted to be a mechanic. Im a network engineer and got into mototcycles because it was fun. I got a lot of bad info and bought a HD for my first bike. I was smart enough to dump it and buy something else that actually had integrated technology (like being liquid cooled!!!), was cheaper, performed better and didnt look like something from thr 50's.
Again, its all about ignorance. Listen to the rants and the word "ignorance" best describes people who keep buying HD's.
Lastly, Byron, you dont rebuild sprockets. You replace them... lol.
One of the main reasons that HD is still very popular is due to mass ignorance. They simply fail to look into the competition for their own reason ands generally overpay for something that is not at all what they believe it to be.
People who buy a HD because "there is simply nothing like a HD" usually buy into the image, think that is is 100% made in America or believe it to be the most durable of all motorcycles. If you like the image then more power to you. However, It isnt 100% American made, not even close, and durability is always subjective.
Performance of HD's is and has always been lousy. Its one of the main reasons I would never buy another. You get people who say "I didnt buy my HD for power/performance" or "I got the speed thing out of my blood years ago" and I laugh every time someone says it. Performace of HD is a huge after market money maker because the first thing a HD owner does is tro to get more power. The marketing of HD is absolutely brilliant because they sell an underpowered machine for a huge amount of money and then get the same people to dump more money into it to try to get adequate performance.
"Ignorance is bliss"
EDIT....
Its so funny when people who support HD reply and get all defensive. Same old arguments, just like the bikes, that are 50 years old. "I know how to rebuild a bike" or "I have seen bikes on the road from the 50's". The arguments are never new and are always invalid. I see tons of cars on the road by my house that are from the 60's and 70s that people restore with huge motors and tires and are huge pieces of crapp. I hate the argument that "I can fix my bike anytime, anywhere..."because its another defensive and illegitmate argument. I never got into motorcycles because I wanted to be a mechanic. Im a network engineer and got into mototcycles because it was fun. I got a lot of bad info and bought a HD for my first bike. I was smart enough to dump it and buy something else that actually had integrated technology (like being liquid cooled!!!), was cheaper, performed better and didnt look like something from thr 50's.
Again, its all about ignorance. Listen to the rants and the word "ignorance" best describes people who keep buying HD's.
Lastly, Byron, you dont rebuild sprockets. You replace them... lol.