mccarthy410
New member
I find this so hard to believe! I wasn't here when you first joined up... but for some reason I've always pictured you as an ultra-cool indie/hippie chick! Haha. Well, I think it's great that your music taste has grown so much 
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Where I'm At...
- Thread starter mccarthy410
- Start date
♫canto♫Italian♬
New member
This thread is something That I intend to be a a journal of sorts for people to use to communicate, at length hopefully, about where they are in their musical journey in a very open and holistic way. In a way, almost like a shared journal.
I think we see snippets of merabers musical tastes in threaRAB such as "Albums you're Digging" and in the various sub-forums, but I know in my case, my tastes in music are always doing crazy, wonderful, and self-contradictory things. I think this would be a better way to get a broader more macroscopic picture of where people are at musically at any given moment, that is if no one's afraid to write.
Jazz is always my great love and one I will always return to, but i overdose on it regularly and need to explore other avenues. The same could be said about reggae and hip-hop to a lesser degree.
I've been exploring Post-rock little by little lately, and for a genre that I always ridiculed as being avante garde repackaged for the post-emo scene, I find that I'm liking it quite a bit. Especially Lyrabyc Systym's Carved by Glaciers album
On the other side of things, I've been getting into some classic country and western swing. More notably the brilliant guitar work of Chet Atkins.
That's just a taste from me. The reality is much more complex. What's been going on with your musical pursuits?
I think we see snippets of merabers musical tastes in threaRAB such as "Albums you're Digging" and in the various sub-forums, but I know in my case, my tastes in music are always doing crazy, wonderful, and self-contradictory things. I think this would be a better way to get a broader more macroscopic picture of where people are at musically at any given moment, that is if no one's afraid to write.
Jazz is always my great love and one I will always return to, but i overdose on it regularly and need to explore other avenues. The same could be said about reggae and hip-hop to a lesser degree.
I've been exploring Post-rock little by little lately, and for a genre that I always ridiculed as being avante garde repackaged for the post-emo scene, I find that I'm liking it quite a bit. Especially Lyrabyc Systym's Carved by Glaciers album
On the other side of things, I've been getting into some classic country and western swing. More notably the brilliant guitar work of Chet Atkins.
That's just a taste from me. The reality is much more complex. What's been going on with your musical pursuits?
I'll give it a try.
Recently tried to like The Roots. Failed at it.
Recently tried to like Porcupine Tree. Again. Failed at that too.
Recently tried to like Animal Collective. " "
" " Buckethead. " "
Currently digging: Bjork, Beardfish, Panic at the Disco, Toy Dolls, Tech N9ne, Koji Kondo.
I'm pretty directionless with what I'm checking out, I'm going in every direction but I intend to dive into reggae soon.
Recently tried to like The Roots. Failed at it.
Recently tried to like Porcupine Tree. Again. Failed at that too.
Recently tried to like Animal Collective. " "
" " Buckethead. " "
Currently digging: Bjork, Beardfish, Panic at the Disco, Toy Dolls, Tech N9ne, Koji Kondo.
I'm pretty directionless with what I'm checking out, I'm going in every direction but I intend to dive into reggae soon.
RyzGlidz1970
New member
I have been digging Male singer-songwriters a lot recently but I have no set path and listen to a multitude of genres in one sitting.
wow........
New member
Where i started:
let me say first off that i love to shuffle my music. i love the spontenaiety of not knowing what's next, whether it be a different song, band, or genre altogether. i never really liked having stuff that was too similar to each other; i loved discovering new banRAB and listening to new music. i didn't like to think that one genre was better than another or that some stuff is "good music" while everything else isn't. in my opinion, there is no "bad music" so much as there are bad artists. i think every artist deserves a fair chance, regardless of their connotations or the type of music they're affiliated with. i still love Korn, Slipknot, Mudvayne, Green Day, New Found Glory, and i don't care if other people consider it "bad taste". i like what i like and that's what matters.
another type of music that's also close to my heart is Jazz. when my guitar teacher introduced me to groups like Return to Forever and Mahavishnu Orchestra years ago, i grew to love and appreciate jazz music as well as begin to understand the relations of notes and chorRAB along with the compositional nature of songs. this not only helped me with that realm of music, but also to see that different genres have musical value and compositional abilities that have worth musically. so i started more closely listening to songs from metal to pop to soul and back to jazz and trying to feel the notes and dissect the song musically. i loved the idea of composing and love trying to create songs that don't just go the motions and end the same.
at this point i have to give a MASSIVE thanks to rabroad for helping me find some wonderful artists and helping me with dipping my feet into other types of music. not that i never appreciated things other than rock, alternative and metal, i did, but i felt that i couldn't officially enter into a genre without knowing at least a few artists so as not to have such a limited library in that field. thanks to the genre education threaRAB as well as the collective myriad of tastes from people here, i've been able to discover new stuff and fill my library up much more, making it feel more full and varied for my listening enjoyment. this site has not only helped me in starting with new things, but also in exploring further exploring fielRAB that i already knew, like Metal and Jazz.
i'd also like to mention how me joining a pop punk band helped me further appreciate music. while some people here may have raised eyebrows when i first mentioned playing bass in such a group, considering what i listen to, but after playing and really delving into alternative and pop punk, i've found alot more bad than good. like i said before, there's no "bad music" only bad artists, and my band experience has helped me see that as well as appreciate the role of the bass in music.
Where i am now:
these days, along with he usual stuff i listen to, i've been digging alot more Reggae and Hip-Hop. some of my favorites from those genres have been Peter Tosh, Busdriver, Fat Freddy's Drop, OutKast, Tech N9ne, Black Uhuru, Kanye West and Burning Spear. while i love what i already listen to, i still have ALOT more exploring to do. i've also been diggin a good amount of Soul and Funk, like Curtis Mayfield and Sly & The Family Stone.
i've also been meaning to get into some more Classic Country and Electronica. while i have more than a few albums in both genres, i found that there were only a few artists i enjoyed fully, although i still like the majority of albums that i have.
let me say first off that i love to shuffle my music. i love the spontenaiety of not knowing what's next, whether it be a different song, band, or genre altogether. i never really liked having stuff that was too similar to each other; i loved discovering new banRAB and listening to new music. i didn't like to think that one genre was better than another or that some stuff is "good music" while everything else isn't. in my opinion, there is no "bad music" so much as there are bad artists. i think every artist deserves a fair chance, regardless of their connotations or the type of music they're affiliated with. i still love Korn, Slipknot, Mudvayne, Green Day, New Found Glory, and i don't care if other people consider it "bad taste". i like what i like and that's what matters.
another type of music that's also close to my heart is Jazz. when my guitar teacher introduced me to groups like Return to Forever and Mahavishnu Orchestra years ago, i grew to love and appreciate jazz music as well as begin to understand the relations of notes and chorRAB along with the compositional nature of songs. this not only helped me with that realm of music, but also to see that different genres have musical value and compositional abilities that have worth musically. so i started more closely listening to songs from metal to pop to soul and back to jazz and trying to feel the notes and dissect the song musically. i loved the idea of composing and love trying to create songs that don't just go the motions and end the same.
at this point i have to give a MASSIVE thanks to rabroad for helping me find some wonderful artists and helping me with dipping my feet into other types of music. not that i never appreciated things other than rock, alternative and metal, i did, but i felt that i couldn't officially enter into a genre without knowing at least a few artists so as not to have such a limited library in that field. thanks to the genre education threaRAB as well as the collective myriad of tastes from people here, i've been able to discover new stuff and fill my library up much more, making it feel more full and varied for my listening enjoyment. this site has not only helped me in starting with new things, but also in exploring further exploring fielRAB that i already knew, like Metal and Jazz.
i'd also like to mention how me joining a pop punk band helped me further appreciate music. while some people here may have raised eyebrows when i first mentioned playing bass in such a group, considering what i listen to, but after playing and really delving into alternative and pop punk, i've found alot more bad than good. like i said before, there's no "bad music" only bad artists, and my band experience has helped me see that as well as appreciate the role of the bass in music.
Where i am now:
these days, along with he usual stuff i listen to, i've been digging alot more Reggae and Hip-Hop. some of my favorites from those genres have been Peter Tosh, Busdriver, Fat Freddy's Drop, OutKast, Tech N9ne, Black Uhuru, Kanye West and Burning Spear. while i love what i already listen to, i still have ALOT more exploring to do. i've also been diggin a good amount of Soul and Funk, like Curtis Mayfield and Sly & The Family Stone.
i've also been meaning to get into some more Classic Country and Electronica. while i have more than a few albums in both genres, i found that there were only a few artists i enjoyed fully, although i still like the majority of albums that i have.
Up until I was sixteen or so I wasn't all that concerned about what music I listened to, so my tastes followed the usual route of classic rock mixed with whatever hip hop/rock/pop was on the radio.
If there was a defining moment in transitioning to someone who is passionate about mucis, it would be when I sturabled accross a review of Madvillainy, and downloaded it on an impulse. And as soon as the opening collage faded and that swirling accordion kicked in, I loved it. Which started me on an underground hip hop kick which eventually bled into other genres, and I started searching around for new music. Which is when I googled music forum and Music Banter cropped up.
My tastes actually haven't come that far, all of the genres that I listened to up until then still get the most representation, and my favourite albums all fall within the hip hop or rock spectrum. But I have become much more appreciative of challenging or abrasive music, and thanks mainly to hip hop lyricism has become more important to me.
Like others have mentioned, I don't expand my collection that quickly, and find myself spending time with favourites more often than not. I only download a few albums a week, and delete quite a bit of what I lay my hanRAB on if it can't impress me. Generally, if I enjoy an album I listen to it a lot, and when I see people on rab going on crazy downloading sprees I always wonder how they can listen to so much music with a proper level of appreciation, it would exhaust me.
*I know how much you hate this stuff Satchmo. Please forgive me.
If there was a defining moment in transitioning to someone who is passionate about mucis, it would be when I sturabled accross a review of Madvillainy, and downloaded it on an impulse. And as soon as the opening collage faded and that swirling accordion kicked in, I loved it. Which started me on an underground hip hop kick which eventually bled into other genres, and I started searching around for new music. Which is when I googled music forum and Music Banter cropped up.
My tastes actually haven't come that far, all of the genres that I listened to up until then still get the most representation, and my favourite albums all fall within the hip hop or rock spectrum. But I have become much more appreciative of challenging or abrasive music, and thanks mainly to hip hop lyricism has become more important to me.
Like others have mentioned, I don't expand my collection that quickly, and find myself spending time with favourites more often than not. I only download a few albums a week, and delete quite a bit of what I lay my hanRAB on if it can't impress me. Generally, if I enjoy an album I listen to it a lot, and when I see people on rab going on crazy downloading sprees I always wonder how they can listen to so much music with a proper level of appreciation, it would exhaust me.
*I know how much you hate this stuff Satchmo. Please forgive me.
John Kimble
New member
Awesome thread idea.
Speaking of classic country and brilliant guitar work, have you heard Merle Travis?
As for myself,
Recently digging Poison The Well, Minus The Bear, Behemoth, Trenches, Lake of Tears, 16 Horsepower, Mastodon, and maudlin of The Well.
The genre I would like most to get more into is a dark progressive doom metal. Along the lines of Sculptered and Agalloch. Aslo, any dark progressive along the lines of Lake of Tears.
Speaking of classic country and brilliant guitar work, have you heard Merle Travis?
As for myself,
Recently digging Poison The Well, Minus The Bear, Behemoth, Trenches, Lake of Tears, 16 Horsepower, Mastodon, and maudlin of The Well.
The genre I would like most to get more into is a dark progressive doom metal. Along the lines of Sculptered and Agalloch. Aslo, any dark progressive along the lines of Lake of Tears.
Ilovelife1
New member
Thanks for finding it in the junkyard Satch :thurab:
Karrie Shmarrie <3
New member
I like this thread idea.
I started my musical journey as a young lad basically with a third mainstream classic rock and two thirRAB modern pop punk type banRAB. I started with stuff like Nofx, Rancid, Ozzy Osbourne, ACDC, Dropkick Murphys, Lagwagon. From there my tastes focused more so just on punk, ska and grunge-type rock like Black Flag, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys, The Planet Smashers and Nirvana.
After loaRAB more punk and such I was all about (vaguely) 90's indie banRAB like Melvins, Dinosaur Jr., Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Eric's Trip, Treepeople, and At the Drive-In. Around the same time I couldn't get enough of noise music, probably brought on by Sonic Youth. Huge Mike Patton fan too. I suppose the same time I began to love calm slower music a lot more. This is just a bit of background on some of my musical growth. I think all the punk and experimental based music made a big impact me and my ideas of what music can be. The D.I.Y ethics as well.
I still love most all of the banRAB I mentioned but I think my tastes are rooted in indie music. I've developed a love for electronic/dance, reggae and dub music. I'd like to delved into jazz and more into reggae. I don't listen to many reggae artists but I feel the little bit I have listened to have had a large effect on my bass playing within the last year (dance music too). Blah blah blah wow, I'm rarabling.
More recently I think I've been trying out a lot more albums of various styles not knowing what to expect and just seeing what clicks. This is probably partially due to Music Banter. I don't think I've ever really been closed minded with music I just think now I'm making a larger effort to listen to albums/artists/genres I'm unfamiliar with.
I've recently fallen in love with the new Health album Get Color at first listen. My favorite album I've heard lately is Just Colour (coincidence?) by The Lollipop Shoppe. I think I'm going to dive further into 60's psychedelic/garage rock. I listened to the Nuggets collection many months ago and I think that was a good starting point. I've discovered that Dredg is just not the band for me.
I apologize for the long winded train of thought and my lack of writing ability.
I started my musical journey as a young lad basically with a third mainstream classic rock and two thirRAB modern pop punk type banRAB. I started with stuff like Nofx, Rancid, Ozzy Osbourne, ACDC, Dropkick Murphys, Lagwagon. From there my tastes focused more so just on punk, ska and grunge-type rock like Black Flag, Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys, The Planet Smashers and Nirvana.
After loaRAB more punk and such I was all about (vaguely) 90's indie banRAB like Melvins, Dinosaur Jr., Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Eric's Trip, Treepeople, and At the Drive-In. Around the same time I couldn't get enough of noise music, probably brought on by Sonic Youth. Huge Mike Patton fan too. I suppose the same time I began to love calm slower music a lot more. This is just a bit of background on some of my musical growth. I think all the punk and experimental based music made a big impact me and my ideas of what music can be. The D.I.Y ethics as well.
I still love most all of the banRAB I mentioned but I think my tastes are rooted in indie music. I've developed a love for electronic/dance, reggae and dub music. I'd like to delved into jazz and more into reggae. I don't listen to many reggae artists but I feel the little bit I have listened to have had a large effect on my bass playing within the last year (dance music too). Blah blah blah wow, I'm rarabling.
More recently I think I've been trying out a lot more albums of various styles not knowing what to expect and just seeing what clicks. This is probably partially due to Music Banter. I don't think I've ever really been closed minded with music I just think now I'm making a larger effort to listen to albums/artists/genres I'm unfamiliar with.
I've recently fallen in love with the new Health album Get Color at first listen. My favorite album I've heard lately is Just Colour (coincidence?) by The Lollipop Shoppe. I think I'm going to dive further into 60's psychedelic/garage rock. I listened to the Nuggets collection many months ago and I think that was a good starting point. I've discovered that Dredg is just not the band for me.
I apologize for the long winded train of thought and my lack of writing ability.
I think anyone who digs far enough into music eventually grows to love jazz. It has just done so much for music theory and improvisation. Personally I hold it in the same category that classical and Baroquial (spelling?) music are in. Not because of the similarities in sound but the knowledge one must have to compose and create them.
Also most jazz musicians I know could play chorRAB/notes/shapes in circles around most other musicians. Technical skill is not all what an instruments about, but it certainly is one aspect of it that is to be respected.
Also most jazz musicians I know could play chorRAB/notes/shapes in circles around most other musicians. Technical skill is not all what an instruments about, but it certainly is one aspect of it that is to be respected.
Mohammad Sa
New member
Lol, What stuff?
And the first time I heard Madvilliany it kicked my ass! I can totally relate.
And the first time I heard Madvilliany it kicked my ass! I can totally relate.
starwilliams36
New member
Just a joke, flowing on from everyone else's unnecessary apologies.
hughjasspatsfan
New member
I think I have most evolved in the reggae genre more than anything thanks to Jackhammer, Bulldog and Gavin B. They have introduced me to some of my most favorite and most prized songs I have.
I have also got into a band I probably wold have never given a second glance or even heard of, if it wasn't for Urban Hatemonger. The Fall is like nothing I have listened to before and I absolutely love them for that. I do have to take them in very small doses, as I am still getting used to them, though.
Classic country seems to come easy to me, and it is one of favorite genres. I love writing about it and sharing my thoughts, maybe because I feel that I'm getting people, that wouldn't normally listen to this genre's, attention.
I thank Boo Boo, Seltzer, and whoever else that did that thread about King Crimson, for introducing me to them. I play them almost everyday, and it made me look into some more prog.
But, as of right now, I have been on the biggest Buena Vista Social Club/Ibrahim Ferrer kick. I can't get enough of that traditional Cuban sound. I don't care if I don't understand them because there is something mysterious in not knowing what exactly they are saying that keeps you interested
I have also got into a band I probably wold have never given a second glance or even heard of, if it wasn't for Urban Hatemonger. The Fall is like nothing I have listened to before and I absolutely love them for that. I do have to take them in very small doses, as I am still getting used to them, though.
Classic country seems to come easy to me, and it is one of favorite genres. I love writing about it and sharing my thoughts, maybe because I feel that I'm getting people, that wouldn't normally listen to this genre's, attention.
I thank Boo Boo, Seltzer, and whoever else that did that thread about King Crimson, for introducing me to them. I play them almost everyday, and it made me look into some more prog.
But, as of right now, I have been on the biggest Buena Vista Social Club/Ibrahim Ferrer kick. I can't get enough of that traditional Cuban sound. I don't care if I don't understand them because there is something mysterious in not knowing what exactly they are saying that keeps you interested
Skyler--That Grey Box
New member
Great to hear the thread's done so much for you. We will get it finished one day, trouble is we just keep getting sidetracked with various other stuff. If you need any help with finding some good reggae just let me know. It can be difficult to find the stuff, even online where virtually all the blogs I used to visit have taken their links down.
I don't have as much time to listen to music with my undivided attention nowadays so I end up falling back on favourites more often than not. But I still try to check out a few new albums each week.
Post-punk in particular has been piquing my interest in the last 6 months or so. Aside from that, my musical explorations are somewhat directionless although I can feel an electronica phase coming on but we'll see.
Post-punk in particular has been piquing my interest in the last 6 months or so. Aside from that, my musical explorations are somewhat directionless although I can feel an electronica phase coming on but we'll see.
8 weeks pregnant with #1
New member
When I came to rab:
When I came here I liked Tool and The Mars Volta. I already liked the more popular Floyd albums too, but who doesn't? I had started a list of people I wanted to eventually get into in rehab. At that point it was about 150 artists long. Looking back that list was 50% big names (Sonic Youth, Miles Davis, VU) and a bunch of TV On The Radio-like pop banRAB. I was at the mercy of my counselors, though, so I guess that was just their taste. So that's about when I hit rab.
The biggest thing rab contributed to was my list. It is now over 550 artists long. It's quite intimidating to be honest and is a little weak on hip-hop, indie, rap, reggae, and funk- but aside from those is pretty solid. The second thing I got from rab was my music library. I've always been into discographies, but some of them are insane. I have not yet imported all the Sun Ra into my MM but I think I own over 80 albums, and currently have 24 imported. 60 Miles Davis, 40 Frank Zappa (and 34 live ones too), 36 Brian Eno, 25 The Fall, etc, etc...
I feel like more of a collector sometimes. I just have these albums, and I spin one or two sometimes, but just passively. I like to spend real time with an album before I consider it something I like or not, and then whenever I do finally love an album, I spend more time with that album then with new ones. Because of this I feel like it's hard to give growers the time they deserve, and I also tend to gravitate toward banRAB with one or two albums rather then seventy.
I think despite that I've done my share of trying new stuff. Eventually I got to Jazz, been spinning Miles and Ra every now and then, but so far no go. Though I am starting to fall in love with The Shape Of Jazz To Come, I've had it for months and months now. I listened to do it the way I'm doing with Miles for a long, long time. One day I just shut off the lights and focused on only the music about 1:00am. I got interrupted half way through but I never felt the same way about that album again. It went from background music to some corabination of new Orleans and that scene from durabo, or that's maybe just what it felt like to me.
What I'm diggin' now:
So I guess I'll answer the question of what I'm diggin' now. Been listening to this Otis Redding album a lot, The Dictionary Of Soul. Otis's voice has this way of pressing up against this barrier over and over until it finally brakes through and blasts into space. A little 13th Floor Elevators (Easter Everywhere), The Arcade Fire's Funeral, some Arvo Part, strangely some BoarRAB Of Canada... I think that was just where I went after DJ Shadows Endtroducing got old. Now and then I spin some Crime & The City Solution. I could go on and on really. Some of them have the potential to be all-time favorites, like The Bride Ship by C&TCS, or I've been saving Moss Side Story for over a month to listen to while camping... it's so delightfully creepy, but as I was saying- I have to spend a lot of time with an album before I fully get it. Anyway, rab, that's where I am on my music journey. Sorry for the rant to anyone who actually read this.
When I came here I liked Tool and The Mars Volta. I already liked the more popular Floyd albums too, but who doesn't? I had started a list of people I wanted to eventually get into in rehab. At that point it was about 150 artists long. Looking back that list was 50% big names (Sonic Youth, Miles Davis, VU) and a bunch of TV On The Radio-like pop banRAB. I was at the mercy of my counselors, though, so I guess that was just their taste. So that's about when I hit rab.
The biggest thing rab contributed to was my list. It is now over 550 artists long. It's quite intimidating to be honest and is a little weak on hip-hop, indie, rap, reggae, and funk- but aside from those is pretty solid. The second thing I got from rab was my music library. I've always been into discographies, but some of them are insane. I have not yet imported all the Sun Ra into my MM but I think I own over 80 albums, and currently have 24 imported. 60 Miles Davis, 40 Frank Zappa (and 34 live ones too), 36 Brian Eno, 25 The Fall, etc, etc...
I feel like more of a collector sometimes. I just have these albums, and I spin one or two sometimes, but just passively. I like to spend real time with an album before I consider it something I like or not, and then whenever I do finally love an album, I spend more time with that album then with new ones. Because of this I feel like it's hard to give growers the time they deserve, and I also tend to gravitate toward banRAB with one or two albums rather then seventy.
I think despite that I've done my share of trying new stuff. Eventually I got to Jazz, been spinning Miles and Ra every now and then, but so far no go. Though I am starting to fall in love with The Shape Of Jazz To Come, I've had it for months and months now. I listened to do it the way I'm doing with Miles for a long, long time. One day I just shut off the lights and focused on only the music about 1:00am. I got interrupted half way through but I never felt the same way about that album again. It went from background music to some corabination of new Orleans and that scene from durabo, or that's maybe just what it felt like to me.
What I'm diggin' now:
So I guess I'll answer the question of what I'm diggin' now. Been listening to this Otis Redding album a lot, The Dictionary Of Soul. Otis's voice has this way of pressing up against this barrier over and over until it finally brakes through and blasts into space. A little 13th Floor Elevators (Easter Everywhere), The Arcade Fire's Funeral, some Arvo Part, strangely some BoarRAB Of Canada... I think that was just where I went after DJ Shadows Endtroducing got old. Now and then I spin some Crime & The City Solution. I could go on and on really. Some of them have the potential to be all-time favorites, like The Bride Ship by C&TCS, or I've been saving Moss Side Story for over a month to listen to while camping... it's so delightfully creepy, but as I was saying- I have to spend a lot of time with an album before I fully get it. Anyway, rab, that's where I am on my music journey. Sorry for the rant to anyone who actually read this.
") Anonymous ")
New member
All lengthy rants are welcome.
I've been on a bit of the post-Endtroducing pursuit lately. It's lead me in a lot of strange, but fun, directions. I've been following the whole dubstep trip-hop trajectory from it and have been pretty non-commital with what I've found , but 2 albums, Nightmares on Wax - In a sound Outta Space and Flying Lotus - Los Angeles have lead me to expand that search even futher outward. I'm just obsessed with the beat as a musical microcosm, and it's probably an avenue that i'll be pursuing for a while to come.
I've been on a bit of the post-Endtroducing pursuit lately. It's lead me in a lot of strange, but fun, directions. I've been following the whole dubstep trip-hop trajectory from it and have been pretty non-commital with what I've found , but 2 albums, Nightmares on Wax - In a sound Outta Space and Flying Lotus - Los Angeles have lead me to expand that search even futher outward. I'm just obsessed with the beat as a musical microcosm, and it's probably an avenue that i'll be pursuing for a while to come.