Rock n' Roll
New member
Good. Would you rather we never fought the south and thousands of people were enslaved because of nothing but the color of their skin. Inequality is a sick, sad thing.
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Was Abe Lincoln A Bad President?
- Thread starter Rock n' Roll
- Start date
Well I've herd both sides of the argument, one says "Hes good because he free'd slaves and preserved
the union" but on the other hand i have read "He was a bad president. He waged war on his own people. You can't get much worse than that. Lincoln was responsible for the deaths of more Americans than all other presidents combined.
Lincoln was not interested in ending slavery; that was just a by-product that would have happened eventually anyway. He was only interested in "preserving the Union" -- codeword for maintaining and expanding Federal power over the states and the people.
How in the world is "preserving the union" worth 600,000 lives?"
So which is it?
the union" but on the other hand i have read "He was a bad president. He waged war on his own people. You can't get much worse than that. Lincoln was responsible for the deaths of more Americans than all other presidents combined.
Lincoln was not interested in ending slavery; that was just a by-product that would have happened eventually anyway. He was only interested in "preserving the Union" -- codeword for maintaining and expanding Federal power over the states and the people.
How in the world is "preserving the union" worth 600,000 lives?"
So which is it?
Across the Dark
New member
I think Abraham Lincoln is overrated. I respect his presidency, and what he tried to do but I think his presidency failed in terms of leadership.
Back then the whole legislation process, and representatives from the states were way way different. Naturally the north had a higher population than the south, so the North had more say in the federal government and federal laws.
There was no restrictions on senators or representatives from each state. Pennsylvania obviously had way more people than poor Virginia did so they got more representation which was unfair.
Union legislation was a burden on the Southern way of life for years, this didn't happen over nigh or even in a few yearst it was brewing over a few decades. The North wanted to end slavery in the South while retraining the rights to slavery in states like Maine. It was completely unfair, farming and plantations was the Southern way of life and slavery was essential.
I'm not saying I support slavery but you have to take into consideration that these were different times, different standards and principles, and slavery was key to the Southern economy and way of life. This was the final straw and is why they succeeded from the Union.
Aside from Americans killing each other, in America's bloodiest war where more Americans died than in WW1 and WW2 combine . Not all bad things came out of it, the reunification of the Union and a change to the electoral college were significant. States now had limits on senators and representatives in proportion to population.
Overall Lincoln was a good president, with admirable goals. But I think he's overrated, failed in terms of leadership and pales in comparison to Washington and even Jefferson.
Back then the whole legislation process, and representatives from the states were way way different. Naturally the north had a higher population than the south, so the North had more say in the federal government and federal laws.
There was no restrictions on senators or representatives from each state. Pennsylvania obviously had way more people than poor Virginia did so they got more representation which was unfair.
Union legislation was a burden on the Southern way of life for years, this didn't happen over nigh or even in a few yearst it was brewing over a few decades. The North wanted to end slavery in the South while retraining the rights to slavery in states like Maine. It was completely unfair, farming and plantations was the Southern way of life and slavery was essential.
I'm not saying I support slavery but you have to take into consideration that these were different times, different standards and principles, and slavery was key to the Southern economy and way of life. This was the final straw and is why they succeeded from the Union.
Aside from Americans killing each other, in America's bloodiest war where more Americans died than in WW1 and WW2 combine . Not all bad things came out of it, the reunification of the Union and a change to the electoral college were significant. States now had limits on senators and representatives in proportion to population.
Overall Lincoln was a good president, with admirable goals. But I think he's overrated, failed in terms of leadership and pales in comparison to Washington and even Jefferson.
Gobsmacked From Birth
New member
Take a look at Detroit. You tell me!
AverageJoe
New member
He was a kind of Muamar Qaddafi.
Big bad Bob
New member
War is the result of the failure of human beings to compromise. Abe failed to compromise with the radicals from the south who thought they had a right to secede because they weren't included in the economic expansion that the North was enjoying.
The south were basically spoiled sports who wanted to take their ball and go home.
The south were basically spoiled sports who wanted to take their ball and go home.
Queen Nancy Pelosi
New member
Where'd you learn that? Liberal education? Abe Lincoln freed the slaves, and even though it was a by-product, who is to say "that would have happened eventually anyway", if it only happened after the Civil War? There's no evidence to support that claim.
~Queen Nancy Pelosi
~Queen Nancy Pelosi
The Mad Baron
New member
The best argument made on the matter was by radical abolitionist and anarchist Lysander Spooner. Probably one of the greatest political thinkers to ever come out of this country. He basically said that Lincoln rendered the constitution of the United States null and void by using the force of the U.S. Military to enforce the participation in a voluntary contract. The act of a dictator.
Read "No treason" by Lysander Spooner. It is available online for free.
Read "No treason" by Lysander Spooner. It is available online for free.
He said himself that he would end slavery if it would keep the union in tact or he would keep slavery if it would keep the union in tact. I think a really big part of his fame is probably that he was killed in office. People do love martyrs, that's why Nirvana's so popular.
i have mixed feelings about him, on one hand i think he was what we needed on the time, on the other hand maybe we'd be better off without the south...
also he was somewhat of a tyrant. in the union during the civil war, one could be sent to jail for criticizing him or the union.
also he was somewhat of a tyrant. in the union during the civil war, one could be sent to jail for criticizing him or the union.
Really? there are people that think lincoln is a bad president?
Historians agree that lincoln is the best president ever, next to FDR.
The south fully realized that there was going to be war when they seceded, Lincoln didn't have much of a choice in the matter, he wasn't just going to lose half of the country.
By the way, you don't get your face on mt Rushmore for being a bad president...
Historians agree that lincoln is the best president ever, next to FDR.
The south fully realized that there was going to be war when they seceded, Lincoln didn't have much of a choice in the matter, he wasn't just going to lose half of the country.
By the way, you don't get your face on mt Rushmore for being a bad president...
Islam Delenda Est
New member
He was also one of the great flip-floppers of all time, as shown by the following quote:
"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right - a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit." - Abraham Lincoln January 12, 1848
"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable, a most sacred right - a right which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people, that can, may revolutionize, and make their own of so much of the territory as they inhabit." - Abraham Lincoln January 12, 1848