Synthetic Oil...???
- Thread starter Mister-E
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Arooroo Mom
New member
:welcomes: There are a crap load of oil threads floating around, try using the search function, you should find the answer you are looking for.
The Nobodies
New member
Get the 10W40 and be happy!
The "designation" for Sport Bikes is a gross generalization.
It says no such thing on the bottle.
P.S. Auto Zone carries it. About $8.80 a quart.
The "designation" for Sport Bikes is a gross generalization.
It says no such thing on the bottle.
P.S. Auto Zone carries it. About $8.80 a quart.
evy is bored!!
New member
I don't......but I do!:mrgreen:
Just saw an ad today comparing a $4 cup of coffee to a $4 six-pack of Miller's. Always knew that $4 coffee was a waste !!! :cheers:
Just saw an ad today comparing a $4 cup of coffee to a $4 six-pack of Miller's. Always knew that $4 coffee was a waste !!! :cheers:
dr.dextrous
New member
It was intended more as a condemnation of $4 coffee than an endorsement of the $4 6-pack.......although I have tipped a few in my time.:mrgreen:
King of the Hill
New member
Synthetic oils that are not meant for a wet clutch application and will cause slipping as well as less protection for a motorcycle engine. There are tons of threads on the forum I've been on for years (SOHC4) about this written by much more informed individuals than myself.
Rotella T is in the Howwwwwwwse!!
Interesting read.
Rotella T is in the Howwwwwwwse!!
Interesting read.
Cville, I read some of what you linked to. The insinuation that molecules get "chopped up" by gears is absurd. A chopped up molecule results in a different compound, and no oil that I'd use comes through the drain hole after a few thousand miles as a different compound.
Many, MANY motorcyclists use "car" oil with no ill effects. Only "energy conserving" oils, like most in the 5w-30 weight or lighter, have the type of friction modifiers that cause clutch slippage. The Bandit has a typical clutch with no super powers, handles 80 lbs-ft plus just fine, and shifts like butter on Mobil 1 15-50 (or 10-30). It's time to put these largely unfounded rumors to bed.
Many, MANY motorcyclists use "car" oil with no ill effects. Only "energy conserving" oils, like most in the 5w-30 weight or lighter, have the type of friction modifiers that cause clutch slippage. The Bandit has a typical clutch with no super powers, handles 80 lbs-ft plus just fine, and shifts like butter on Mobil 1 15-50 (or 10-30). It's time to put these largely unfounded rumors to bed.
"Cville, I read some of what you linked to"...
That does explain your reply. If you had bothered to read even the first link referenced in that thread, instead of taking the thread's layman's wording as a scientific stance, you would have found that, yes, the molecules in synthetics CAN and DO get chopped up in gears. It's not absurd if you know what you're talking about or actually bother to do the research.
"no oil that I'd use comes through the drain hole after a few thousand miles as a different compound"
Have you taken this oil in to have it tested against what you put in at the begining? If you are telling me that you can discern molecular differences by eye then either you have eyesight that is amazing or have no idea of what a statement about molecular changes actually refers to.
"Many, MANY motorcyclists use "car" oil with no ill effects"
As well as many have ridden without a helmet, jacket, boots, etc. That doesn't mean that it's a safe thing to do, but to each, their own. If you want to take you life or your bike's longevity into your own hands at least do so with proper information.
"It's time to put these largely unfounded rumors to bed."
oops:
Try doing to research before posting an uninformed statement like this. You have obviously been around this particular forum for a while and some may take it for granted that you've already done the research for them without questioning such a dismissive statement. This is not only an incorrect statement, but an irresponsible one as well.
Ride Safe (and informed)
That does explain your reply. If you had bothered to read even the first link referenced in that thread, instead of taking the thread's layman's wording as a scientific stance, you would have found that, yes, the molecules in synthetics CAN and DO get chopped up in gears. It's not absurd if you know what you're talking about or actually bother to do the research.
"no oil that I'd use comes through the drain hole after a few thousand miles as a different compound"
Have you taken this oil in to have it tested against what you put in at the begining? If you are telling me that you can discern molecular differences by eye then either you have eyesight that is amazing or have no idea of what a statement about molecular changes actually refers to.
"Many, MANY motorcyclists use "car" oil with no ill effects"
As well as many have ridden without a helmet, jacket, boots, etc. That doesn't mean that it's a safe thing to do, but to each, their own. If you want to take you life or your bike's longevity into your own hands at least do so with proper information.
"It's time to put these largely unfounded rumors to bed."
oops:Try doing to research before posting an uninformed statement like this. You have obviously been around this particular forum for a while and some may take it for granted that you've already done the research for them without questioning such a dismissive statement. This is not only an incorrect statement, but an irresponsible one as well.
Ride Safe (and informed)
Yes, I have done research. Hours of it. And I've read test results from those riding bikes exactly like mine and running oil exactly like mine. I stand by my statements. You're apparently lacking the fundamentals of chemistry to make those claims. Molecules don't just get smaller without dramatic changes in their properties.
Whatever. Spend your money how you want if it give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Oh, and look around for the "quote" button when you get a chance. It'll make reading your posts a bit easier.
Whatever. Spend your money how you want if it give you a warm, fuzzy feeling inside. Oh, and look around for the "quote" button when you get a chance. It'll make reading your posts a bit easier.
freespirit12212000
New member
OK, so you still didn't read a very in-depth article that explains the facts. All About Motor Oil
Yes, some of the molecules go through dramatic changes, but they are only a part of the complex blend that creates motor oils today. Without this part, the more involved reactions of the total compound changes but not in a way that you could possibly notice with your eyes.
If you read my statement earlier, I said that synthetic oils that ARE NOT MEANT FOR wet clutch applications cause problems. There are synthetics that are made for motorcycles that work very well and that is probably what you are using. Yes, the energy conserving oils are the worst offender to a wet clutch, but not the only one.
My original statement was an attempt to evoke some interest in the topic so others might actually do the research and learn why one oil is better than another for their particular application. Simply accepting that someone with a similar bike uses such-and-such so it must be right is not the best way to foster a long relationship with a cherished machine.
Maybe there are many people that could care less about the potential long-term damage they cause a machine but I feel that, wether I have the machine a month or 20 years, anything I do to/for it will be properly researched, performed with strict attention to details, and revisited at a later point to critique the outcome.
Ride Safe.
Oh, thanks for pointing out the "Quote button". I had overlooked it.
Yes, some of the molecules go through dramatic changes, but they are only a part of the complex blend that creates motor oils today. Without this part, the more involved reactions of the total compound changes but not in a way that you could possibly notice with your eyes.
If you read my statement earlier, I said that synthetic oils that ARE NOT MEANT FOR wet clutch applications cause problems. There are synthetics that are made for motorcycles that work very well and that is probably what you are using. Yes, the energy conserving oils are the worst offender to a wet clutch, but not the only one.
My original statement was an attempt to evoke some interest in the topic so others might actually do the research and learn why one oil is better than another for their particular application. Simply accepting that someone with a similar bike uses such-and-such so it must be right is not the best way to foster a long relationship with a cherished machine.
Maybe there are many people that could care less about the potential long-term damage they cause a machine but I feel that, wether I have the machine a month or 20 years, anything I do to/for it will be properly researched, performed with strict attention to details, and revisited at a later point to critique the outcome.
Ride Safe.
Oh, thanks for pointing out the "Quote button". I had overlooked it.
Wyatts mama
New member
I've seen that article many times over the last five years or so. I probably have it bookmarked. If you'd care to narrow down the section that you're referring to, I'd be interested to read it again so we're on the same page. I don't have time to read the whole thing this week.
ChiC_pArIsIEnnE
New member
I change my oil regularly. 2500-3000 miles. Last season, I changed it 6 times. I only really needed 5, but I did it once after a 1800 mile round trip because I had a lot of highway miles on it and had to top it off a couple times during the trip. I used Amsoil then...and got it for $6/quart for the new/good MCF stuff.
This season, though, after I used my last 6 quarts (wife rides, to, so a change for me and a change for her), I opted to go with the Shell Rotella T 15w-40 Heavy Duty. At 2.74 per quart (Walmart, cheaper if you buy by the gallon)....since I change 2500-3000 miles anyways, I figure the bikes will be just fine on it and I'll save quite a bit over the years. It's been great with my wet clutch thus far. I am 1200 miles into the first use of it.
This season, though, after I used my last 6 quarts (wife rides, to, so a change for me and a change for her), I opted to go with the Shell Rotella T 15w-40 Heavy Duty. At 2.74 per quart (Walmart, cheaper if you buy by the gallon)....since I change 2500-3000 miles anyways, I figure the bikes will be just fine on it and I'll save quite a bit over the years. It's been great with my wet clutch thus far. I am 1200 miles into the first use of it.
GrnEyedGurl
New member
We would all like to think that our motorcycles are engineered with the highest degree of technology available and, are built using the highest degree and tightest tolerances capable of the most modern and technically advanced machining processes available. This simply isn't true. It's simply an emotional response. What could be more perfect than this machine that I've lusted after ?
The truth is, designers and engineers of production based motorcycles must take into consideration the worst case consumer. They need to design their machines to function even when abused past there intended use. This results in looser machine tolerances than can be easily obtained by today's technology.
DESTRUCTIVE TESTING
All manufacturers, be it motorcycles or any mechanical widget, perform destructive testing. In the case of motorcycles, manufactures will take their motors and fill/equip them with the most common fuel/oil/filters available and run them until the motor fails. Many of the tests take neglect into account ( i.e. - low or no oil, bad filters, water in gas etc. ). The manufacturer will then make design changes and recommendations for the maintenance and care a consumer must take.
MAINTENANCE SCHEDULES / REQUIREMENTS WITH REGARD TO OIL
Recommended oil - Every manual for the motorcycles I've owed have specified a standard motor oil such as 10/40, 15/30, 20/50 depending on temperature of operation. As of late, only making recommendations to avoid friction additives for wet clutch applications. I've found that service intervals recommended by the manufacturer have been typically to long. However, these are based on their testing and will result in an engine that will perform adequately well beyond the motorcycles expected service life.
Filters - For the most part, I've found that manufacturers suggest changing the filters every other oil change ( air - clean and reinstall ). Most good filters cost between $8.00 - 20.00 so why screw around, just change them at the same time you change the oil. Crap in the engine is going to cause more damage than the molecular composition of the oil you use.
Synthetic Oil - Are you racing ? Have you done any engine machining ? Are you planning a cross country ride ? Do you plan on going 10,000 - 15,000 miles between oil changes ? Do you plan to keep your motorcycle for the next 30 years/ 200,000 miles ? If not, you most likely don't need a synthetic oil.
Validation - I think that all of us as riders, we are human after all, would like to think that after spending $ 70.00 or so for an oil and filter change ( $40. synthetic oil, $20. air filter, $10. oil filter ) obtained a remarkable performance change do to our extra effort and money. In reality we're most likely imposing our wishes and personal ego upon reality.
Disclaimer - I do use synthetics in my motorcycles. Do I think they do a better job...I don't know. I've rebuilt quite a few old bikes using standard 10/40, Mystery Oil, and PB Blaster. To be honest, I've never noticed a marked increase in performance with the addition of synthetics after restoring them to running condition.
If it helps you to enjoy your ride by switching to a synthetic oil...go for it. It sounds like good money spent. Whatever you use, I'd suggest that changing the oil and filters on a regular ( 3,000 miles ) basis would serve you better.
Then again, what do I know.
The truth is, designers and engineers of production based motorcycles must take into consideration the worst case consumer. They need to design their machines to function even when abused past there intended use. This results in looser machine tolerances than can be easily obtained by today's technology.
DESTRUCTIVE TESTING
All manufacturers, be it motorcycles or any mechanical widget, perform destructive testing. In the case of motorcycles, manufactures will take their motors and fill/equip them with the most common fuel/oil/filters available and run them until the motor fails. Many of the tests take neglect into account ( i.e. - low or no oil, bad filters, water in gas etc. ). The manufacturer will then make design changes and recommendations for the maintenance and care a consumer must take.
MAINTENANCE SCHEDULES / REQUIREMENTS WITH REGARD TO OIL
Recommended oil - Every manual for the motorcycles I've owed have specified a standard motor oil such as 10/40, 15/30, 20/50 depending on temperature of operation. As of late, only making recommendations to avoid friction additives for wet clutch applications. I've found that service intervals recommended by the manufacturer have been typically to long. However, these are based on their testing and will result in an engine that will perform adequately well beyond the motorcycles expected service life.
Filters - For the most part, I've found that manufacturers suggest changing the filters every other oil change ( air - clean and reinstall ). Most good filters cost between $8.00 - 20.00 so why screw around, just change them at the same time you change the oil. Crap in the engine is going to cause more damage than the molecular composition of the oil you use.
Synthetic Oil - Are you racing ? Have you done any engine machining ? Are you planning a cross country ride ? Do you plan on going 10,000 - 15,000 miles between oil changes ? Do you plan to keep your motorcycle for the next 30 years/ 200,000 miles ? If not, you most likely don't need a synthetic oil.
Validation - I think that all of us as riders, we are human after all, would like to think that after spending $ 70.00 or so for an oil and filter change ( $40. synthetic oil, $20. air filter, $10. oil filter ) obtained a remarkable performance change do to our extra effort and money. In reality we're most likely imposing our wishes and personal ego upon reality.
Disclaimer - I do use synthetics in my motorcycles. Do I think they do a better job...I don't know. I've rebuilt quite a few old bikes using standard 10/40, Mystery Oil, and PB Blaster. To be honest, I've never noticed a marked increase in performance with the addition of synthetics after restoring them to running condition.
If it helps you to enjoy your ride by switching to a synthetic oil...go for it. It sounds like good money spent. Whatever you use, I'd suggest that changing the oil and filters on a regular ( 3,000 miles ) basis would serve you better.
Then again, what do I know.