Relapsed...Again

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Mariskas

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Hi, Im new to this but I've read some of your posts & they were so helpful.
I've been on n off drugs (pain killers & meth) for the past 10 years.
I've been clean for long perioRAB of time till something triggers me. Now, it's dilaudid, I've been back on it for the past 10 days, taking 17 mgs a day.
I know I have to stop...but I also suffer from O.C.D & depression...
I don't want to go back on meth or detox/rehab places...I need to do this outside on my own. But I'm obssessing about withdrawing...thinking that I can die, lose it...that I can't do it on my own. My ocd is giving me high anxiety. I want to taper off the dilaudid, I have like 30 pills left n will ration them so I wont withdraw too much but I'm scared.
I know 10 days @ 17 mg is not like months or years but it feels like it.
Any advice? I can't go to my family this time.
thank you
 
Mariskas,

Something that is really helpful when wanting to come off of strong opiates (as opposed to methadone, which is notorious for its extremely unpleasant and long lasting withdrawals) is a drug called Suboxone (buprinorphine and naltrexone) , or Subutex (buprinorphine) . These are semi-active opioid inhibitors. The way they work is that they bind to the brain's opioid receptors, and basically block the activity of fully active opiates when ingested; that is - while taking the subutex/suboxone, you would not feel the effects of any opiates, and since buprinorphine is a semi-active opiate, you would not experience withdrawals, nor would you get the depression typically associated with quitting opiates cold turkey (once the physical W/D is over...).

The difference between Subutex and Suboxone is that the latter contains naltrexone (a.k.a. Narcan - given to opiate overdose patients) in a small enough dose to not be active if used properly; but which (unfortunately) is included to deter the person taking it from using fully active opiates by causing the body to go into instant physical withdrawals if he/she ingests any opiates (pretty quickly too, I might add); additionally since Narcan is a fully active opiate antagonist/blocker once the opiate withdrawal is initiated the use of more opiates only serves to make the body go into withdrawal worse. So it's a pretty good incentive not to relapse.

Ingestion of subutex/suboxone is really simple - it's a sublingually taken tablet that you take after abstaining from opiates for at least 24 hours (to prevent the narcan from inducing W/D symptoms) - you just let it dissolve under your tongue and that's it.

As far as getting off of subutex/suboxone, the withdrawals from buprinorphine are really mild because it's only semi-active as an opioid. I can tell you this from personal experience, because I was on a relatively high dose of suboxone (24 mgs/day) and only felt mild W/D symptoms after stopping flat out. Of course, one could also choose to taper off as well.

I found that taking suboxone was really helpful, much more so than methadone, because with subutex/suboxone you don't end up still feeling opiated, and thus I could function just as if I had taken nothing, but having no symptoms of WD's, and no depression from the chemical irabalance and low natural endorphine/dopamine levels associated with the cessation of opiate use.

I hope this advice helps, good luck to you! :-)

Brian
 
hi, hope you are doing well. i just thought i would tell you my journey with suboxine. it was awful, the withdrawal was worse then going off the opiate itself. i never in my life felt so bad and have gone on and off of vic's lots of times. this past time i was on my DOC for over a year, every day 10 - 12 10 mgs, so i decided to go the suboxine route. never again. please be careful if you decide to take sub. i know everyone is different and i'm not saying the other poster is wrong, i just want you to know both sides of the story, the doctor told me suboxine was a miracle drug, i took it for 3 months, looked like a zorabie, i could hardly keep my eyes open. one day on the way home from work i hit a car and that was when i decided i had to stop. i've been 19 days clean!! and i feel soooo goooood!!! i would still be taking the drug if it was up to my doctor, he told me i would be on it a good year. my feeling is that this is a big money maker for doctors and the pharmacutical (sp) companies. just please be careful, if you can wean yourself off of your DOC without too much discomfort, that's what I would suggest. Have a good day and stay strong. amed
 
I too did the suboxone route and it was a true blessing. I am a greatful recovering addict. Amed225 you were on a too high a dose. I too was very drowsy when my dose was too high. But cut down and it helped with the cravings which were horrible. Tapering off the sub is the best route for me. Of course that along with meetings it taught me a new way of life that has never been better.

I think we all want the same for you, a better life and you will truly find it in sobriety. I am so grateful for these boarRAB and AA that I just want to hug everybody. It is so wonderful not having to run to dr appts and er's for a fix. Everytime I think about the way my life was prior it makes me so greatful I don't have to live that way anymore!!!!!!

Good Luck sweetie in which ever way you choose. Just remeraber we are all here for you.

Take Care, Lots of hugs!!!!

Love,
Lori
 
Let me amend my first post: I have been a heroin addict on and off since 1995 (not using now, and have been clean for the better part of 1.5 years) , so my experience with opiates of all types is highly extensive, and I guess I should've explained that a little better. I've detoxed a variety of different ways, from tapering off to mathadone maintenance and suboxone was by far the easiest. The reason why I recommend subutex/suboxone is because if you use it properly, it really does work wonders (it did for me - I was coming off of a black tar habit of at least a gram a day). Here's how and why:

If you use subutex/suboxone the best way to do it is on a SHORT TERM basis. I took it for two weeks, and the only withdrawal I felt from it was I was a bit sleepy.Like I said in my first post I was on a really high dosage too (24 mg/day) . The reason why I did it this way was to allow my system to rid itself of heroin metabolites, not experience withdrawals, and not get too used to taking the suboxone (plus it's kinda expensive).
I am not a doctor, but I don't think that suboxone should be used as a MAINTENANCE program, i think it should be taken to drastically lessen the brunt of full fledged withdrawals, which when taken this way it lets you do. This hasn't just been my experience with taking it that way, I know quite a few people who've done it this way and attained similar results as mine. I don't wish to detract from amed225's advice, like she said there may be other experiences with it. Here's how I look at it: what is there to lose? You can try tapering the DilaudiRAB, which btw are pretty much pharmaceutical grade heroin (diacetylmorphine vs dihydromorphine), you can cold turkey them (which you said you didn't want to experience WD's, you could go back to methadonia which surely sucks, or you could try it my way. A couple of weeks on suboxone or subutex (which is better since there's no Narcan) and then stop taking it. If you get WD's from it, you're really not any worse off than you were before, as you're gonna probably get SOME WD's; if my way works, and I know it did for me & some frienRAB of mine, then you've gotten of the dilaudiRAB with little discomfort and depression. So there you have it. Honestly, what have you got to lose?

Good luck, and have a great day!
 
hi, my dose was not high at all, i was on 2 mgs twice a day, from an 8 mg pill twice a day. but for some reason the stuff turned me into a zorabie, if i was not moving around doing something, i would nod out and fall asleep. sitting at my desk at work and driving my car was a total nightmare. like i said, everyone is different. sometimes you have to find out the hard way like i did. best wishes to all, amed
 
mariskas, obviously brian knives is very well informed on the drug scene. unfortunately all people don't react the same to all drugs. why not taper yourself off your DOC, go thru a couple days of not feeling too great, and you don't have to deal with doctor appointments, getting another script filled find out your body does not like sub, and also all the money you have to hand out to people who don't need it. what have you got to lose????

one of the main reasons for sub is that it takes away cravings. most doctors want you to be on it for at least 6 months before you taper, and if you don't taper VERY slowly you will suffer greatly. there are TONS of posts on here about suboxine, some for it, some against it. the choice is out there, and it's yours to make. good luck to you, stay strong. amed (female)
 
Hi everyone, just reading the posts on suboxone. I have been off of suboxone 35 days (read my posts from over a month ago please) under suboxone withdrawl in the search bar. I tapered very very slowly with the help controlled strongly by my addictionologist doctor. After coming out of the clinic I was on 2mg twice a day. I was weaned down very slowly tapering right down to 1/8 of a suboxone to crurabs. The last crurab I took was on Dec. 28/2008 and the next day went into "full blown withdrawls" for 3 weeks to 1 month. I went through hell and back!!! I am not going to repeat my story but read up on it please. I know everyone is different but several posts on these board tell that a lot of people went through the same thing.

Please be very careful as I fully believe that you are trading one bad drug for another. Please know that this is my opinion and lot of other people on these boarRAB will agree with me. I know it works for a lot of people but not for me!!!! (Just stating my opinion)

Take care and be careful Lyn in Michigan :angel:
 
10 days sounRAB like just enough time to develop some tolerance--but not the same as 2-3 months of heavy use. I think that you'll be fine, even if you CT. You will most likely have some withdrawals, but they won't be as bad as before, when you used for longer perioRAB.

Good luck. I'm sure that you'll be fine.

mk
 
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