Idol on CTV is bad- Fox is OK-BEV is not simsubbing

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FuzzyQball

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CTV has been getting really bad with thier simsubs. Volume is all over the place, and video stutter.

BEV is to be congratulated for not simsubbing CTV over FOX.
 
CTV does not have anything thing to do with the sim sub. Its done at BEV or Rogers or Shaw. The carrier makes the change. We just provide our signal to them. If the sim sub is crap... its a problem at BEV. If the sin sub is forgotten... its someone asleep at the BEV switch.
 
Still it is good to see that someone over at BEV decided not to simsub the crappy CTV feed over FOX
 
The CTV feed is the EXACT same feed as fox. There is no difference between the two. The problems ocurr when the sim sub is put in place at BEV. If its not a 100% lock then you get audio and video issues. CTV gets their feed from FOX. They just place a CTV bug on it. Then send it out to BEV.
 
I don't think that it is exactly the same feed, because the CTV logo I saw is that nasty opaque black bug mostly covering the FOX logo. Wouldn't the feed have to be uncompressed, the CTV logo applied on top of the FOX logo, and then re-compressed - losing some quality - to do this?
 
Isn't ATSC video based on MPEG, i.e. lossy compression tools? This is similar to taking a jpeg image, editing it, and saving the result as another jpeg. The second jpeg will be worse than the first; no ifs, ands, ors, buts. What makes things worse is the need to...
  1. Uncompress the HDTV picture
  2. Edit the uncompressed picture
  3. Re-compress the picture
  4. AND do it in real time
This brings to mind the old contract-computer-programmer joke... You me to write the program fast, with no bugs, and for a low cost? Pick any two.

An editing studio can do a good job where the degradation in image quality is not noticable to the average viewer, but they're not doing it in real time. A live program, like Idol, and especially NFL football, MUST be simsubbed live. A delay of more than a few seconds is unacceptable, not only to qualify for simsubbing, but because people want to see it live. You need damn expensive gear to do a good and fast uncompress/edit/recompress job without noticable image degradation.
 
I cna tell you all with absolute certainty that a viewer will never notice any difference in pic quality if they were to look at our incoming fox feed and our outgoing ctv bugged feed. Any issue with the picture lies with the carrier doing the sim sub.
 
Note my added emphasis. Your statement may be technically correct in that the picture isn't noticably degraded AT YOUR REALTIME EDITING FACILITY, but that's not the entire story. For the FOX signal, the path to the viewer consists of...
  1. Raw feed from FOX to affiliate station
  2. Affiliate station slaps on logo, compresses signal and sends it to transmitter
  3. Transmitter sends signal OTA, where it is picked up by Rogers' head-end antenna
  4. Rogers then "does its thing" and sends the HDTV signal to the subscriber.
What is the equivalent path for a sim-subbed signal? Enquiring minds want to know.
 
editor,
What could Bell possibly do in the sim sub process that it would degrade the service? What is "lock"? It seems strange that Bell would be completely at fault for a bad quality simsub, and CTV never has any transmission problems?
 
Even if they are they same, normally BEV simsubs CTV over FOX, and I am glad that they don't because it is not working well(for whatever reason)
 
BDUs are required by the CRTC to simsub *IF* the Candian signal is the same or higher resolution and the quality is justa s good. If the simsub feed is crap, BDUs do not have to carry it. If I were a Bell lawyer, I'd insist that the techs at the simsub centre tape both feeds, as documentation, just in case the CRTC demands to know why a show wasn't simsubbed.

Bell doesn't have to simsub a crummy signal over a good one, but they can. It's not that they feel such empathy about their customers' veiwing experience, but in most of the country, there are generally 2 satellite providers, a cable provider, possibly an IPTV provider, and maybe even OTA. If Bell gives customers a crummy feed, and a competitor gives a good clear feed, Bell loses customers; it's that simple. After the NFL playoff fiasco back in January, the issue is on the public radar.
 
If BEV is messing up the simsub, I wonder why the audio would be messed up with big differences between ads and the show. I just don't see how this sould be BEV's fault. I understand that the BEV receivers can lock up a bit on the switch, but after that it should be the same as any other BEV HD channel.
 
On FOX my receiver has been cutting out and going very blocky every minute or two during Idol, is anyone else's doing that?

I'm on FOXHE
 
But EV, or at least their bosses at BGM, *want* to simsub everything possible. This is due to the cross ownership of EV and CTV, CHUM, etc by BCE. It is in their best interests to simsub for the 'old boys' at Global as well since they share the same financial interests. Don't expect that EV will ever do anything that is not to the financial benefit of Canadian broadcasters or that they will ever put customers ahead of Canadian broadcasters. :rolleyes:
 
A couple of disagreements here...
  1. It's not "Bell Globemedia" anymore; it's CTVglobemedia. See http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi?rkey=1412146977&view=39118-0&Start=0 BCE has sold most of their shares in the old BGM. BCE doesn't really care about CTV anymore.
  2. While BCE may not have "warm fuzzy feelings" about their customers, they do take their bottom line seriously. There is enough competition amongst BDUs that ExpressVu can't afford to piss off too many customers to the point that they vote with their feet..
 
I meant BCE, not BGM, but point taken. Unfortunately, the corporate mentality of "simsub everything possible and then some" seems to persist at EV. These guys even simsub US programs with with CH upconverts. This is not only sad and annoying but probably against CRTC policy. :rolleyes:
 
"SIM SUB EVERYTING" ??? You obviously don't understand how and why sim subs happen.

A sim sub happens only when both a cdn and amnet station are running the same program at the same time. Meaning CTV Toronto runs Desparate Housewives at 9pm same as ABC Boston. And because CTv has bought the rights for the show, their signal is placed over the ABC signal. Its done for advertising purposes more than anything. As well as ratings, which basically means advertising.

If CTV airs the show at 9pm and ABC is runing it at 10pm, there is no sim sub.

BEV is responsible for the SIM SUB. Not CTV. CTV is just enforces it with the help of the CRTC. If the CTV feed is not as good a qaulity as the ABC feed, BEV can refuse to do the SIM SUB but they have to provide the reaosn why, if and when CTV and the CRTC come calling.
 
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