I was having a debate with a friend about homosexuality/religion....?

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She asked me if I believe homosexuals are condemned,
and asked my whether I believe having sex with a child is okay.
Both are stated in the bible as being wrong. I do believe having sex with a child is wrong, but i don't believe being gay is an abomination of god. Then she insinuated that I should believe having sex with a child isn't wrong because certain indigenous areas practice marrying off children. BUT WE KNOW there is a big difference between the two....help me out here ... I need to prove my point. I love GOD, and I know god does not condemn people for loving someone of the same sex. Why would god condemn love.
 
Religion and sexuality are two separate and distinct topics. People love to muddy and intertwine the two but your real question is one of morality.

Are you a moral person or not...

Sex with a child is immoral and clearly wrong. Having sexual relations with a consenting adult of either sex is not.

That's my stance.
 
There are people who have spent their lives studying christianity and found that the english translation of the bible has many mistakes. I don't know off the top of my head where you would be able to find this information but it's there, you just need to look. Whether it is correct or not is questionable (i'm not religious so i don't really care). There are so many people who blindly follow the bible and the 'rules' in it. I think that practicing religion goes further than reading passage after passage of the same version of the same book every day (not many people even do this). It's important to look further than that if you really value your religion. It's irresponsible of a christian to blindly follow a copy of a copy of a copy of a book written hundreds or even thousands of years after the events in it supposedly took place. Not only that but the bible wasn't written by god. Isn't it possible that the text could be slightly tainted by man's impurity? Isn't it possible that the text could be a product of it's time? after all, it doesn't say that there's anything wrong with slavery. It doesn't have any problem with referring to women as goods and slaves and war seems to keep god on a person's side (so long as it's in his name).
If anything, just tell her that, no matter what she says, she cannot argue effectively that a gay couple is not the result of two people who really want to be together. If she can't see the difference between that and child molestation then she's sick.
 
There is such a thing as consent. A child does not have the ability to consent, but an adult does. Unfortunately we have very vague definitions on when and how a child becomes an adult, and consequently certain laws are screwed up (driving age, drinking age, voting age, consent age, etc...) Anyhoo, Sex between two consenting ADULTS is perfectly permissible. Sex with a child is rape. When two adults have sex, they are not hurting anyone. When an adult have sex with a child, he/she is hurting that child. How? Could be psychologically, mentally, or even physically.
 
Religious arguments are never winnable, big or small. examples of this are all around us from the myriad churches that have split off in the last 400 years, to the constant problems in the middle east, to your conversation earlier.

Most people are not biblical or religous scholars and have no business interpreting, in my opinion - even those who are know enough to not argue about it outside of a debate forum. And, in the bible, it mentions some pretty heinous things to do to your children in the old testament.

As far as homosexuality goes, look up the story of Jonathan and David in the bible. Depending on the translation - you'll see. But, regardless - God created us this way, or at least intended it so - either as a challenge to ourselves (catholic) or just because he loves the diversity of humankind. Because I know i never chose it, and the silent voices of innumerable gay teens who have killed themselves, or been bashed speak a testament to the fact that had they been able to change, they would have.
 
right and wrong are are human ideas and many religions conflict on where the lines should be drawn.

if left to our own devices without any moral guidance we would all start having sexual intercourse as soon as we became aware of the urges.

girls would be subject to what we would consider rape by the dominant male, as soon as they came into "heat" for the first time. whats that 11,even 10 years old pedophilia would never be an issue. it would be the norm.

IF WE WERE WILD ANIMALS

ARE YOU?
 
Sadly it's an argument that you'll never win. Religion is open to interpretation and all religions interpret it differently. Don't you find that strange enough in itself? I know i sure do.

I say believe what you want to believe and don't let anyone tell you differently. At the same time, allow them to believe what they believe.

My Grandmother used to say 'There is no right or wrong, only opinion'. I totally agree with this and it's a philosophy i've lived by all my life. I suggest you do the same before you go insane.

Good luck with it!!
 
Ok here is the argument you use ...

She is drawing a parallel between the two because she sees them as the same. All you need to do is show the differences between the two in your argument.

1. A committed relationship is consensual where as molestation of children is an older person taking advantage of a younger person who isn't mentally developed enough to understand what is happening. It is someone who knows better inflicting possible harm against an innocent child. An agreed upon relationship between adults is a relationship of adults who have an equal understanding of the situation. A molested child can be mentally scared as a result of the situation.

2. Homosexuality was not God's original plan, but the basic component is still in gay relationships as well as straight relationships ... LOVE. The relationship is not perfect, but it is not evil. Although it is not a perfect relationship the way God originally intened, the element of true love can still be found. Pedophilia on the other hand is evil because it can harm children who aren't mature enought to make those choices, again, homosexuality doesn't cause harm to either party, molesting children hurts the children for the rest of their life.

3. Homosexuality is not a choice. It is a sexual difference. One can choose not to molest children. In fact, pedophilia is more about taking advantage of kids who are innocent, for the persons own personal satisfaction at the expense of the child's welfare.

Great harm and mental distruction exsists in one (evil, sin), an alternative way of love in a same sex relationship (not perfect, sin, but has the basic element of god.).

Sin is not always evil, but evil is always sin.

Example:

Evil Sin = A man abducting, raping, and beating up a woman. He hurt someone else for his own pleasure when he know someone else would be hurt, and felt no remorse for his bad behavior.

Imperfect Sin = A woman drinking a diet pepsi. A man smoking cigaretts. A woman screaming at her children, but later feeling bad and making reparations to her kids.

Evil sin is doing something that hurts someone else in a way where you benefit and have no remorse for doing so.

Imperfect sin is doing something that isn't God's origional plan and missing the mark of his perfection (a catagory we all fall into on and off at some times in our lives). Not being perfect and getting away from God is sin, but it is not sin that hurts anyone else. Yes, drinking diet pepsi is a sin because God did not create it and Jesus says that you body is your temple. Smoking cigaretts is not of God. He would never endorse anything that would hurt the body and cause disease so smoking commercial cigaretts is imperfect sin!

Point out to your friend that eating shell fish is a sin! It says so in the bible clearly. If she drinks someting that is not naturally found in nature by God, then she is comitting a sin! But let her know that it isn't evil.

Good Luck.
 
Actually, there is a lot of support for your position. The idea that Christianity condemns homosexuality is a very debatable one.

There are also some good books on the subject of Christianity and homosexuality that support your position, such as
What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel A. Helminiak
Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America by Mel White
Homosexuality and Christian Faith: Questions of Conscience for the Churches by Walter Wink

You also might be interested in these websites:
http://www.gaychurch.org/Gay_and_Christian_YES/gay_and_christian_yes.htm
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-walter-wink
http://epistle.us/homobible.html

ALSO, here is another, interesting POV. It is from this website:
http://members.aol.com/gunnyding/wrong.htm --
Salvation is not the work of human effort - it comes solely from God. It is by grace that we are saved through faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. So why do many "god-fearing", "mother-loving", "Bible-bumping", "American as apple pie" people believe that it is impossible to be Christian and gay? Mainly three reasons contribute to this mis-understanding and the resulting resentment for, fear of, and hostility towards our homosexual brothers and sisters.

As for sex with children, besides the excellent point already made about Consent -- the problem with your friend's argument about many cultures that marry off children is this:
Generally in those cultures the child is PROMISED to a man (or to another child), but the actual marriage and/or consumation does not happen until the child reaches whatever that culture calls the age of consent. That age of consent varies from culture to culture, but I have never heard of one in which it is under the age of puberty.

In any case, your friend's linking of homosexuality and pederasty is an insulting argument. The two have nothing to do with each other. You might want to ask her if she thinks slave owners are condemned, since the Bible apparently had no problems with people owning slaves.
 
God doesnt hate you if your gay...God loves everyone..however, there is a limit. he has given everyone the freedom to choose between right and wrong. and clearly being GAY is very WRONG...

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

you better believe that being gay is an abodimination of God.

God doesnt condemn love....he has given you the choice to love. but you have to be wise in your decisions.

God tried to help us out and show us the way when he made a man and a woman in the begining...
 
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