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Getting the bike to track right...
- Thread starter "Vet"
- Start date
Looking at the picture of your bike, it does not look like the front forks are set at a 25mm offset. Was the picture taken before you had installed the aftermarket triples? The picture of mine has 30mm offset Nichols triples, which can be taken to 28mm. I have been wondering about trying to do this, but with the 30mm, I had to remove the fans, and move the radiator back. Also because the front forks were set up with 9.5lb springs, and superbike valving/shimming in the OEM Ohlins forks, they are a little softer, under full out braking I am about 2-3 mm before bottoming. Which is why I am a little concerned about going to a shorter/smaller offset....
BOBR
BOBR
Guys, I think some of you missed the point, where I mention 1098 "previous" bike and S4RS "current" bike.
Makymax.. I have adjusted the compression in the range of 3 clicks to 12 clicks, with no resolve. Sag has been adjusted and is correct for my weight. Rebound is balanced with the front, meaning..when I press on the seat and triples at the same time the bike rises and drops at the same rate..
A thought...could it be the shape of the tyres, I have the stock Michelins on, which has the "v" front wheel shape?
The other thing I was thinking of...To get hyabusas to keep in a straight line, the swingarm is extended, right? If I extend the lenght of the bike somehow (rake/trail..I think), without extending the swingarm will it track better out of the corner or in a corner?
Makymax.. I have adjusted the compression in the range of 3 clicks to 12 clicks, with no resolve. Sag has been adjusted and is correct for my weight. Rebound is balanced with the front, meaning..when I press on the seat and triples at the same time the bike rises and drops at the same rate..
A thought...could it be the shape of the tyres, I have the stock Michelins on, which has the "v" front wheel shape?
The other thing I was thinking of...To get hyabusas to keep in a straight line, the swingarm is extended, right? If I extend the lenght of the bike somehow (rake/trail..I think), without extending the swingarm will it track better out of the corner or in a corner?
El Torito, you are missing the mark some here. Your suspension, both bikes, both F & R is not setup for you guy.
1098 forks are factory .95/kg/mm, you need .85kg-.90kg springs up front and rear you need a much softer spring on that shock, around a 7.0kg/mm would suit your street and track sense well, maybe a tad heavier at custom rate of 7.3. Stock is more 8.5kg/mm... BIG difference.
No way your suspension is set up corrrectly. You might have good rebound, but doubtful. Your sag I would argue is no way what it should be. If you've never ridden a bike with the suspension setup for you, your weight and riding style, I'd say you're really missing out and what you think you know, you really dont on that topic until you try it.
No way is it the tires either, both bikes come with different tires and neither tire has the issue you describe.
You are describing a rear end that is too stiff and not wanting to compress while into a turn, progressively more as you speed on the exit, then rebounding way to much from its overly tight spring rate.
I am former Busa owner and stretching them was a way to either become a Parking Lot Pimp and run a fat ass rear tire for show, or for drag racing which helps keep the front end down. Plenty of drag racers and LSR racers do NOT use extended SA, so please get that out of you train of thought. And an longer wheel base is harder to get to want to lean over in turns, they track fine, but of course the OEM Busa suspension is set up for an optimal rider weight of about 140lbs! Go fucking figure, worlds fastest production motorcycle weighing in at 600lbs and they build it for a fucking 140lb rider! Dumb.
Get your springs swapped, go through all your setup again and then go ride, I bet you won't have this issue nearly as bad. Is the rear going to get loose a bit, yes, every Ducati does if being pushed, watch any of the SBK or GP races, they all wiggle a bit on corner exit when being pushed. But not as much as your describing!
1098 forks are factory .95/kg/mm, you need .85kg-.90kg springs up front and rear you need a much softer spring on that shock, around a 7.0kg/mm would suit your street and track sense well, maybe a tad heavier at custom rate of 7.3. Stock is more 8.5kg/mm... BIG difference.
No way your suspension is set up corrrectly. You might have good rebound, but doubtful. Your sag I would argue is no way what it should be. If you've never ridden a bike with the suspension setup for you, your weight and riding style, I'd say you're really missing out and what you think you know, you really dont on that topic until you try it.
No way is it the tires either, both bikes come with different tires and neither tire has the issue you describe.
You are describing a rear end that is too stiff and not wanting to compress while into a turn, progressively more as you speed on the exit, then rebounding way to much from its overly tight spring rate.
I am former Busa owner and stretching them was a way to either become a Parking Lot Pimp and run a fat ass rear tire for show, or for drag racing which helps keep the front end down. Plenty of drag racers and LSR racers do NOT use extended SA, so please get that out of you train of thought. And an longer wheel base is harder to get to want to lean over in turns, they track fine, but of course the OEM Busa suspension is set up for an optimal rider weight of about 140lbs! Go fucking figure, worlds fastest production motorcycle weighing in at 600lbs and they build it for a fucking 140lb rider! Dumb.
Get your springs swapped, go through all your setup again and then go ride, I bet you won't have this issue nearly as bad. Is the rear going to get loose a bit, yes, every Ducati does if being pushed, watch any of the SBK or GP races, they all wiggle a bit on corner exit when being pushed. But not as much as your describing!
B
bucktoui
Guest
Dropping the triples down on the fork tubes will give you quicker turn in but effectively lessen the trail. Raising the triples higher on the forks will give you more trail which will help the bike hold a line and finish a corner but make it harder to turn in requiring more effort on the bars. Ultimately a set of offset triples will be the best way to go allowing you to maintain the quick turn in AND hold a line.
yes, thats what I mean, and the steering was definatly quicker, as you said. Slower corners is easy to go into, and quick on the exit at road speeds (roundabouts)
Front is not drifting wide, and I can complete the corner relatively easy.
Rear ride hight is as per facory setup, no height adjustments has been made.
I will try and increase the rear ride height, and see if it gets any better?
Running with standard triples
Wish there was a pro here to do it for me, but unfortuanatly, not even my dealer has a clue on how to setup a suspension.
Tire pressure rear at 28, and 30 on the front.
Thanks for the technical info, I assume the setup would be the same for the S4RS and 1098 as both use the Ohlins? Where can I get softer springs from?
I would not argue on the fact that my suspension is not perfectly setup for me. I learn as i go along, and what I can find through research. I adjust, then ride, come back and adjust some more.
The busa example was just a shot in the dark, but I understand your point.
How hard can you push this "wiggle"? Will it eventually turn into a slapper, or will the back just slide, ie powerslide?
Ten-6, i read on a 848 thread, that it might be because I dont have enough weight on the front end, (as a monster is a bit more upright, bigger tank proportion).
If I raise the rear, and bring the forks flush with the triples, soften up the front compression, and make the rear compression harder, will it give me better weight distribution on the bike?
Raise the rear...shorten the trail, right?
bring the forks up flush...slower the steering, better handling, but more input from me on the bars, right?
Rear compression harder...less squating, tracking better, right?
Front compression softer, more weight movement to the front under hard braking, reduces the rake and tighter steering, right?
Am I getting this right? Will this help?
thanks for the advice so far guys, I think I am getting some ideas on where to focus
Maybe a pics helps?
Front is not drifting wide, and I can complete the corner relatively easy.
Rear ride hight is as per facory setup, no height adjustments has been made.
I will try and increase the rear ride height, and see if it gets any better?
Running with standard triples
Wish there was a pro here to do it for me, but unfortuanatly, not even my dealer has a clue on how to setup a suspension.
Tire pressure rear at 28, and 30 on the front.
Thanks for the technical info, I assume the setup would be the same for the S4RS and 1098 as both use the Ohlins? Where can I get softer springs from?
I would not argue on the fact that my suspension is not perfectly setup for me. I learn as i go along, and what I can find through research. I adjust, then ride, come back and adjust some more.
The busa example was just a shot in the dark, but I understand your point.
How hard can you push this "wiggle"? Will it eventually turn into a slapper, or will the back just slide, ie powerslide?
Ten-6, i read on a 848 thread, that it might be because I dont have enough weight on the front end, (as a monster is a bit more upright, bigger tank proportion).
If I raise the rear, and bring the forks flush with the triples, soften up the front compression, and make the rear compression harder, will it give me better weight distribution on the bike?
Raise the rear...shorten the trail, right?
bring the forks up flush...slower the steering, better handling, but more input from me on the bars, right?
Rear compression harder...less squating, tracking better, right?
Front compression softer, more weight movement to the front under hard braking, reduces the rake and tighter steering, right?
Am I getting this right? Will this help?
thanks for the advice so far guys, I think I am getting some ideas on where to focus
Maybe a pics helps?
hugz_to_ma_thugz
New member
You are fighting a battle, trying to put a band-aid on when you need a tourniquet.
You can make adjustments to each component of your suspension, you can alter the heights F & R, lean over the tank or whatever you want to do, but the results will handicap the potential of your riding ability until your suspension is sorted for your weight.
The biggest you're having with components is springs rates. You can get springs from Dan Kyle, member here (not sure if he's a sponsor, but I think yes) as he is an Ohlins dealer and suspension guru (just in case you are feeling doubtful of information given here you can ask and he will help you out as well).
My opinion is you do not need an adjustable triple. These bikes have been ridden hard in OEM form, or lightly modified suspension (spring rates for riders) to hell and back with no overpriced track bike adjustable triple. If this bike was meant to be a race bike, sure get the fucking triple, but enough of that shit on a street bike. You don't need it and its not going to solve your issue, it'll make the wallet lighter, which in your case means you'll need an even softer spring.
Yes lowering the front and leaving the back factory is not very good for your handling. Unlike pretty much any other sport bike made, the Duc SBKs like having the rear lowered about 10mm for optimal handling. Whereas on GSXRs, R1/6 etc you would want to lower the front 10mm and raise the rear 5-10mm. When you do this altering you are changing the trail, too little trail and the back will get nervous, but not only on corner exit. So this will help to lower the rear of your bike about 10mm, put the front back to factory setting. Again, you will be handicapped by the spring rates being junk for your weight.
My Chief just picked up a Bitubo adj. steering damper and he said its helped him on the entry and holding the line, no feedback on exiting.
Also, with the PP2CTs that are OEM on your S4R you should be sticking to about 31/31 cold setting on track, this is from my experience with these tires as well as the manager of the track I rode at (Arroyo Seco, NM). Also, the 2CTs do not give the early warning when they get to hot, they just tend to side step out from you. I'd be cautious continuing to corner them hard without having the suspension feedback to guide you.
Whats the effect of pushing them too hard, no tank slapper, but side stepping definitely.
I hope this helps.
Charlie
You can make adjustments to each component of your suspension, you can alter the heights F & R, lean over the tank or whatever you want to do, but the results will handicap the potential of your riding ability until your suspension is sorted for your weight.
The biggest you're having with components is springs rates. You can get springs from Dan Kyle, member here (not sure if he's a sponsor, but I think yes) as he is an Ohlins dealer and suspension guru (just in case you are feeling doubtful of information given here you can ask and he will help you out as well).
My opinion is you do not need an adjustable triple. These bikes have been ridden hard in OEM form, or lightly modified suspension (spring rates for riders) to hell and back with no overpriced track bike adjustable triple. If this bike was meant to be a race bike, sure get the fucking triple, but enough of that shit on a street bike. You don't need it and its not going to solve your issue, it'll make the wallet lighter, which in your case means you'll need an even softer spring.
Yes lowering the front and leaving the back factory is not very good for your handling. Unlike pretty much any other sport bike made, the Duc SBKs like having the rear lowered about 10mm for optimal handling. Whereas on GSXRs, R1/6 etc you would want to lower the front 10mm and raise the rear 5-10mm. When you do this altering you are changing the trail, too little trail and the back will get nervous, but not only on corner exit. So this will help to lower the rear of your bike about 10mm, put the front back to factory setting. Again, you will be handicapped by the spring rates being junk for your weight.
My Chief just picked up a Bitubo adj. steering damper and he said its helped him on the entry and holding the line, no feedback on exiting.
Also, with the PP2CTs that are OEM on your S4R you should be sticking to about 31/31 cold setting on track, this is from my experience with these tires as well as the manager of the track I rode at (Arroyo Seco, NM). Also, the 2CTs do not give the early warning when they get to hot, they just tend to side step out from you. I'd be cautious continuing to corner them hard without having the suspension feedback to guide you.
Whats the effect of pushing them too hard, no tank slapper, but side stepping definitely.
I hope this helps.
Charlie
nascarfan08
New member
When I first got my 999R and rode it without setting the suspension for my weight it felt low in the rear and pushed way wide coming out of turns. After I got the proper Ohlins springs for my weight (I think 9.5' s) and had the sag set by a race bike prep shop, I then set compression and damping in the front and rear to Ohlins factory settings. Those factory settings were kindly given to me by Dan Kyle, who I also got the springs from. The bike felt really good on my favorite roads then, quick turning, stable, it now holds a line much better. I softened rebound and compression damping in th efork by 2 clicks, and that all I have had to do. The bike feels great now. Call Dan and order up some springs for you, and get the suspension set by a good shop.
If you were getting the slight headshake feeling on both the 1098 and now the S4, then maybe you are the one instigating it, not the bike. Grip the bars lightly, get some stomp grip or tech spec grip pads and use your legs on the tank, it will make a world of difference. Also maybe get a damper for the bike if you dont have one.
If you were getting the slight headshake feeling on both the 1098 and now the S4, then maybe you are the one instigating it, not the bike. Grip the bars lightly, get some stomp grip or tech spec grip pads and use your legs on the tank, it will make a world of difference. Also maybe get a damper for the bike if you dont have one.