Do you sometimes get this uncanny feeling of deja vu?

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Unicorn_Blade

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Do people also sometimes have this strange feeling upon watching a series that they have seen it somewhere, maybe not once and not twice? Plot parallels/character development processes, whether intentionally or unintentionally similar?

I am not reading interviews with creators/manga , so I am not exactly sure how many of those are original stories, how many are results of inspiration, and how many just a rip off. I know that there are maybe limits as to how many different plots you can come up with, or how many different characters are available. Most of the time it does not spoil the fun for me, and it might not necessarily be a bad thing all together.

My best example would be Neon Genesis Evangelion and Rahxephon. Aside from giant mecha, the parallels between the main characters (you could replace Ayato with Shinji and Haruka with Misato, you'd get pretty much the same thing). Watching Rahxephon was really difficult of this because I had an impression of watching a clone. I still liked it, but probably would have enjoyed it more if I had not seen Evangelion first.

My latest finding, Eureka 7, reminded me so much of Last Exile, that I seriously thought of giving it up. Although the stories turn into different directions, so many elements are identical (the theme of flying, protecting a mysterious girl, looking up to a father, Alex/Holland).

And I still sometimes confuse Trigun and Trinity Blood. Both shows feature a conflict between two brothers, who are
not human and have superpowers, and the 'evil twin' happens to kill someone that the good one cherishes (Rem gets killed in Trigun, Vash mourns her; Lilith is killed in Trinity Blood, Abel mourns her for a few good centuries).
Both women also happen to love humanity. And the whole show points us towards the fight between the two brothers. Because of that I sometimes actually mix what happened in which show...

It's quite simplified, but I wondered whether other people are bothered by such details.
 
Unicorn_Blade said:
My latest finding, Eureka 7, reminded me so much of Last Exile, that I seriously thought of giving it up. Although the stories turn into different directions, so many elements are identical (the theme of flying, protecting a mysterious girl, looking up to a father, Alex/Holland).
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Eh, I'm having trouble seeing this one. Flying's a fairly common theme, both Claus and Lavie strove to protect Alvis and they weren't romantic towards her obviously unlike Renton and Eureka, plenty of protagonists look up to their father if they aren't abandoned and their father isn't evil, and while Alex isn't perfect he's definitely not as immature as Holland often can be. Yes, there are a few similarities, but they're either played out very differently from the get-go or just common overall.
 
Unicorn_Blade said:
My best example would be Neon Genesis Evangelion and Rahxephon. Aside from giant mecha, the parallels between the main characters (you could replace Ayato with Shinji and Haruka with Misato, you'd get pretty much the same thing). Watching Rahxephon was really difficult of this because I had an impression of watching a clone. I still liked it, but probably would have enjoyed it more if I had not seen Evangelion first.
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As ANN's resident RahXephon fanatic, I get sad when I see people bashing the show for such . . . such . . . patently silly reasons. I strongly advise you to read at least this section and of course this section as well, both of which will show you that RahXephon is most certainly not an Evangelion clone; if anything it owes more to Megazone 23. While you're at it, look up Space Runaway Ideon, which Evangelion borrowed a number of ideas from.

There is nothing new under the sun. But at least shows can mix it up a bit, which RahXephon did. To say it is a clone of Evangelion is like saying I'm a clone of my mother; you're missing half of my heritage. And Evangelion had to come from somewhere, borrowing ideas from its own predecessors.

So don't be bothered when you see a show pay homage to another show, or which copies a bit. Provided of course that it also tries to offer a fresh perspective or a new take on the same old same old. If a show blatantly copies without bothering to mix it up, then get annoyed and call it a clone.
 
doctordoom85 said:
Eh, I'm having trouble seeing this one. Flying's a fairly common theme, both Claus and Lavie strove to protect Alvis and they weren't romantic towards her obviously unlike Renton and Eureka, plenty of protagonists look up to their father if they aren't abandoned and their father isn't evil, and while Alex isn't perfect he's definitely not as immature as Holland often can be. Yes, there are a few similarities, but they're either played out very differently from the get-go or just common overall.
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I thought it was self explanatory that I did not consider the shows to be 100% the same. Of course I would expect the characters to have some special characteristics of their own, neither would I expect Claus to fall for Alvie, I think it is kind of obvious.
But mysterious past/link to the main character's father, and some vague problems with women
who are gone
do seem to make Holland and Alex very alike (plus both have a lot of issues and difficulties dealing with their painful pasts).

It is not only about some random mentioning of flying, but about how important it is to the main characters. Replace the board with the Vanship in first episodes, it would not make much difference.

Also, I did not mean just looking up to the fathers, I think you realise- both fathers achieved something great/legndary in the past, and both Claus and Renton are expected to be euh, well, amazing, just because their fathers were so amazing as well.
The point of start for both series is pretty much identical, before Eureka takes a Neon Genesis Evangelion turn :)

doctordoom85 said:
As ANN's resident RahXephon fanatic, I get sad when I see people bashing the show for such . . . such . . . patently silly reasons. I strongly advise you to read at least this section and of course this section as well, both of which will show you that RahXephon is most certainly not an Evangelion clone; if anything it owes more to Megazone 23. While you're at it, look up Space Runaway Ideon, which Evangelion borrowed a number of ideas from.
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I am not bashing Rahxephon, neither did I say Evangelion is the most original thing out there, it so happened I saw it first. And certainly I am aware of the Rah's values. It is a matter of taste. I personally found Evangelion more interesting, and Rahxephon as a show seemed to borrow a lot of its elements in a way that seemed a bit too obvious. I think i would have enjoyed it more if it did not follow the same scheme until almost the very end, and if lets say character of Haruka was not so similar to Misato (they even seemed to share facial expressions, if you can speak about facial expressions in anime), and the main characters' I-can-do-it and I-can't-do-it withdrawal phases happened approximately at the same stages of both shows. Minor changes would allow Rahxephon to get further away from Eva.
 
I can't really see Last Exile and Eureka7 as being much alike. Sure there are parallels but there are more differences. I am afraid in the end though Deja Vu is unavoidable. As humans we have a limited amount of things we find desirable in a plot. As new Anime comes out character combinations that have worked before will be re used. This is not just in Anime but in every form of entertainment there is only so much you can do to tell a story. If you look at ANY show you can draw parallels to another. Fraid being able to spot stuff like this is just something you will have to learn to get past or find another hobby. I suggest stop looking for original plots like they really exist and just look for pure entertainment.

As for Eureka7 give it sometime. It's one of those shows that starts quite slow and uninteresting. And becomes very very cool later.

Also seriously RahXephon vs Eva that cr*p got old years ago drop it lest you derail the topic. Personally I enjoyed RahXephon and hated Eva I can't see the parallels at all. There are some similar underlying plot elements but it's told in a completely different way. And with different people too. This in a way is my point people love to draw parallels like this but in the end you can draw a parallel between so many things if you try hard enough. Most of this so called XXX Clone nonsense is the result of someone wanting to bash a show because he didn't like the characters/storytelling.
 
I had the feeling of deja vu when watching some anime, I don't mean the anime seemed similar to a different anime. Off the top of my head when watching some episodes of One Piece, Code Geass R1, Green Green, and to aru majutsu no index. At times it just felt like I was watching a repeat of the show even though I had never seen them prior.


In order to make it seem less odd. I use the rational that at some point in time those episodes must have been part of an AMV or a youtube'ers top 10 moments clip.
 
RHachicho said:
As for Eureka7 give it sometime. It's one of those shows that starts quite slow and uninteresting. And becomes very very cool later.

Also seriously RahXephon vs Eva that cr*p got old years ago drop it lest you derail the topic. Personally I enjoyed RahXephon and hated Eva I can't see the parallels at all. There are some similar underlying plot elements but it's told in a completely different way. And with different people too. This in a way is my point people love to draw parallels like this but in the end you can draw a parallel between so many things if you try hard enough. Most of this so called XXX Clone nonsense is the result of someone wanting to bash a show because he didn't like the characters/storytelling.
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This topic was supposed to serve as a fun thread for seeing whether people find a lot of such similarities in different anime and how does that influence viewer's perception, not to see how many parallels you can forcibly draw between different series. More like what you DO actually notice by yourself, not what you CAN notice if you look at the script through a microscope. Sometimes such similarities are more obvious than in other cases, that's all what I said. Also what I would like to point out is that critique is not equal to bashing, which you seem to confuse...

I can't see how saying that something is similar to something else means bashing anyways. I just pointed some similarities, which does not make those series better or worse, some of them appeal more to me as a viewer and you are in no position to criticise that. It is puraly matter of taste, the thread was not meant as a comparison of tastes though.

Finally, I think it absolutely possible to come up with something entirely original, I have seen quite a few shows that I would not compare to anything else, with really original characters and plots.
Sometimes similarities are not what attracts my attention most, but it happens that I get struck by some elements that are repeated so often in such an obvious way. Gungrave had a similar feel to Cowboy Bebop, but the two shows managed to be entirely different, for me. I can't say the same about Last Exile and Eureka for example, where the similarities in my opinion have been emphasised.
 
Allow me to explain I do not care if a show is critiqued on it's own metits. But many people count the fact that a certain show is similar to another against it simply because it is similar. It's that attitude that I don't get on with this wasn't meant as any kind of subtle dig at any of the posters above me I just said what I thaught. Mebe I didn't explain it in a good way tho.

As for it being possible to come up with something original. Well perhaps that's a matter of perspective but for the sake of argument let's concede that you are correct :) It is still completely impossible to fill the demand for Anime with original material. Re workings and similar stories are inevitable. And indeed in many cases to be desired. If RahXephon can be considered for argument's sake a Recreation of the concept behind Eva. Then I think they improved apon it. And while improving on established work is not of the same value as original creation it is certainly not a waste of time :) Again may I point out that this is not necessarily a dig at anything anyone has said jus explaining my position on the subject :)

I appreciate your'e sentiment though. There never seems to be enough good Anime to watch. But then again would there ever be? and if there was would you ever get anything else done? hehe. If shows of the calibur of my favorite shows where on all the time I would probably never leave my house.
 
Only if I actually have seen said anime before and just forgot about it because it was so uninteresting and forgettable. It's been known to happen once or twice. Darkside Blues comes to mind.

Also just like to say I'm with RHachicho. I don't see why something being a similar concept to something else would be at all a problem. In fact wouldn't it make more sense for someone to like something that was similar to something they previously liked? That's far more logical to me. In some cases like RahXephon, the more recent show can improve upon things you didn't like from the concept, rather than detract from it. IE, Evangellion is character driven mech show about the end of the world, while RahXephon is a character driven mech show and a romance about the end of the world
and the creation of a new one
, which is better. That is not to say that every new take on an idea is always a better show though. Look to Fafner as a counter example. Is it good and interesting show? Yeah. Is it better than it's predecessors? No.
 
I think I have said a few times, I don't consider repeating elements a bad thing in general. However, I might not like some of the re-usage of elements, which is my right as a viewer.

It is maybe not about reusing certain themes, which is inevitable to some extent, but they way they are explored. In the mentioned shows, I think some of the themes were (on purpose?) extensively explored in a very very similar way. And because the themes were so emphasised on, it attracted my attention.

Let's say: Texhnolyze. To be fair, I can't seem to think of any single other anime that would have a similar story line or type of characters. Of course you can shuffle it into the 'end of the world' drawer, but the plot itself is quite original. With Last Exile and Eureka 7 for example, I already said what I thought... Which does not mean that they are inferior to Texhnolyze (well, personally, I do prefer Texhnolyze though, for other reasons :D).
 
If you wan't to draw a parralel to Technolyze. How about Ergo Proxy?

Both featured distopian end of the world societies on the brink of collapse.

Both had a dark grunjy art style.

Both had a kind of quasi spirituality that extended as a theme right till the end.

Both featured a lead male
with a strong connection to the worlds spiritual side of the world struggling with his own feelings and instincts
as the series progresses.

Both had the male having a deep connection with a strange female who also had a connection with the spiritual side of the world.

Of course you can shuffle it into the 'end of the world' drawer, but the plot itself is quite original
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This is my point :) you forgive the show it's similarities to others because you love that genre and you can't really get enough of it. However for other shall we say families of shows you're tolerance is far less. I would suggest delaying a show for a few months if you are having issues with it. Abscence makes the heart grow fonder after all .

Just because a show is intellectually rich does not mean it has not borrowed some/most/all of it's elements from other things. If we go further back we can also cite western movies like Blade Runner as an inspiration. Some elements however are more popular than others and thus appear more frequently. Not many have both the intellectual savvy AND the interest to enjoy shows like Ergo Proxy and Technolyxe. Themes that can be enjoyed by everyone will be repeated more often. As for shows following too closely I strongly disagree for example with Last Exile.

Clauss was a completely different person from Ranton. The way he dealt with the world and grew as a person was a different experience.

While flying was explored as a theme it was explored in a vastly different way. In Last Exile the sky was essentially a barrier to overcome. In Eureka7 it was a mystery to understand.

While Holland and Alex may be somewhat similar they are different characters. Holland is brash outgoing and struggling with his own immaturity and expectations.
While Alex is calm determined and vengeful. Also holland loves life whearas Alex seemed to be looking for a place to die well.

I am sure I don't have to go point by point over every example you have suggested. I have pretty much stated everything I can state now. Sure there are parallels but there are far more differences if you just allow yourself to notice them. I was the same I would get up on my high horse and go this is just the same cr*p as before. But then I enjoyed a few of these series and I stopped being critical. You're quoted argument in favor of technolyxe basically applies to most things it's mostly a matter of perspective.

Any group of people who produce stories like this will have genre expectations. They also have to make money. Most people enjoy remakes as long as they are sufficiently different from the original. Therefore they are a guaranteed sale. Original work however is not it enteres the market unprecedented. And wether it is a hit or not is uncertain. If you where in charge of Anime you would do excactly the same. I also disagree with you about the extend that these shows are similar. Sure there is a gutter of Anime where the most cliched shows live. But this is far smaller than you suggest. For example neither eva nor rx nor last e nor eureka 7 are anywhere near it. As for Trigun and Trinity blood. I found only the art style and character design similar. The characters personality was nothing like vash and his story was not vash's story. Sure it ultimately lead him to the same place but the outcome was markedly different was it not?

If you wan't to see true junk Anime try watching Psychic/Vampire Wars or Virus. That will show you what a truly BAD show is capable of :) then maybe you will appreciate the good ones more despite certain generic similarities.
 
I get the feeling when I watch Dragonball Z and Dragonball Z Kai and when I watched Fullmetal Alchemist and Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. Bizarre...

But in all honesty no, I actually don't get any kind of genuine deja vu moments (And I do get alot of them). I've seen similarities and similar interpretations and see "oh, that's kinda like 'x' show" but nothing on the level of deja vu. And alot of times I don't draw the lines as I watch but in retrospection.
 
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