Horror Movie Addict #7
New member
Okay, just would like your thoughts and responses to this short debate...
Topic: Can the Christian God be omnibenevolent and omniscient, without contradiction?
(in other words, can God be all-good, and know everything, at the same time)
Here are some points that were brought up...
CON:
I. Immorality
(there's no "t", this doesn't mean living forever, it means to have no morals)
There are numerous instances in the Bible of God not only accepting, but encouraging and demanding murder and slavery, among other obvious wrongs.
1. Noah's Ark --- God literally killed the entire population, except for one family.
2. Deuteronomy 20, 10-14: 10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies.
(Here, God is instructing to attack, enslave, fight, slaughter, and again enslave. Note that he also puts women and children in the same category as livestock...plunder)
3. 1 Samuel 15, 3: 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "
(Here, God is instructing complete destruction, and murder of not only adults, but of innocent children, even infants)
Therefore, God cannot possibly be "all good", even by itself. He is looking down at these crimes with complete approval, therefore he is okay with the slaughter of infants. If you saw someone slaughtering an infant, would you worship him, or reject him?
II. He knowingly created sin
(If God is omniscient, or all knowing, God knew Eve would eat the apple, that he would have to flood the earth, and that millions of childrens would starve to death, and he did not do anything to change that)
1. God knows exactly who will go to Hell, and who will go to Heaven. Doesn't this mean that he creates people who he knows will spend eternity in a lake of fire? Why would he create someone, only to watch him burn? He is obviously either 1) not all good or 2) not all knowing.
2. If God knew everything, why would he create a generation that he knew he would have to drown? (Not to mention they all went to Hell)
3. According to the principles of omniscience, God also knows the future, at the present. If, at the first day of existence, he knew the world would one day have so many monsters and crimes, why wouldn't he create humanity so that the future was bright?
PRO:
(Pro chose to ignore the first argument set out by Con, citing that the Biblical instances were unimportant, and proceeded to their first argument)
I. Omnipotence (unlimited power and authority)
1. God can be both all good, and all loving, provided that he is not able to intervene with events that are already set in course.
2. If you release a boomerang, you know what will happen, but you are not able to stop it in mid-course.
3. If God did not intervene, every single prayer would be meaningless.
II. Free Will
1. God gave us free will because he loves us, to deny us free will (by intervention) would be denying love. While complicated, God can be omnibenevolent and omniscient at the same time.
CON:
Re: Omnipotence
There are many instances in the Bible that clearly demonstrate God's ability to intervene with current events, such as the flood, and the impregnation of Mary. Therefore, to say that God is not omnipotent is illogical.
Re: Free Will
Free will is not completely free, when God knows your every decision beforehand. Also, by granting us free will, and making us the way we are, he has bound us to sin. (Is it still an act of love?)
Topic: Can the Christian God be omnibenevolent and omniscient, without contradiction?
(in other words, can God be all-good, and know everything, at the same time)
Here are some points that were brought up...
CON:
I. Immorality
(there's no "t", this doesn't mean living forever, it means to have no morals)
There are numerous instances in the Bible of God not only accepting, but encouraging and demanding murder and slavery, among other obvious wrongs.
1. Noah's Ark --- God literally killed the entire population, except for one family.
2. Deuteronomy 20, 10-14: 10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies.
(Here, God is instructing to attack, enslave, fight, slaughter, and again enslave. Note that he also puts women and children in the same category as livestock...plunder)
3. 1 Samuel 15, 3: 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "
(Here, God is instructing complete destruction, and murder of not only adults, but of innocent children, even infants)
Therefore, God cannot possibly be "all good", even by itself. He is looking down at these crimes with complete approval, therefore he is okay with the slaughter of infants. If you saw someone slaughtering an infant, would you worship him, or reject him?
II. He knowingly created sin
(If God is omniscient, or all knowing, God knew Eve would eat the apple, that he would have to flood the earth, and that millions of childrens would starve to death, and he did not do anything to change that)
1. God knows exactly who will go to Hell, and who will go to Heaven. Doesn't this mean that he creates people who he knows will spend eternity in a lake of fire? Why would he create someone, only to watch him burn? He is obviously either 1) not all good or 2) not all knowing.
2. If God knew everything, why would he create a generation that he knew he would have to drown? (Not to mention they all went to Hell)
3. According to the principles of omniscience, God also knows the future, at the present. If, at the first day of existence, he knew the world would one day have so many monsters and crimes, why wouldn't he create humanity so that the future was bright?
PRO:
(Pro chose to ignore the first argument set out by Con, citing that the Biblical instances were unimportant, and proceeded to their first argument)
I. Omnipotence (unlimited power and authority)
1. God can be both all good, and all loving, provided that he is not able to intervene with events that are already set in course.
2. If you release a boomerang, you know what will happen, but you are not able to stop it in mid-course.
3. If God did not intervene, every single prayer would be meaningless.
II. Free Will
1. God gave us free will because he loves us, to deny us free will (by intervention) would be denying love. While complicated, God can be omnibenevolent and omniscient at the same time.
CON:
Re: Omnipotence
There are many instances in the Bible that clearly demonstrate God's ability to intervene with current events, such as the flood, and the impregnation of Mary. Therefore, to say that God is not omnipotent is illogical.
Re: Free Will
Free will is not completely free, when God knows your every decision beforehand. Also, by granting us free will, and making us the way we are, he has bound us to sin. (Is it still an act of love?)