Cut off of Opiates because I Detoxed Myself

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ddoddington2

New member
Definitely should have told them about it, then when the time comes and you want to take your tolerance down you tell the Dr so he can put it in your files and not write you a refill for that month. In order to be treated we have to follow the rules and they are pretty strict, but it's that or nothing. There isn't a story out there you could make up that they haven't heard from addicts. I worked in a rehab facility and that is one of the dozens of stories I've heard from addicts. At least you got a second chance, that is very rare.
 
I am a chronic pain sufferer and have been on opiates for 8 years. About 5 years ago I noticed some dependancy issues deveoping so I began detoxing myself twice a year in June and then in December. My wife distributes my meds so twice a year we just dump them keeping a few in case the detox gets too bad, and it sometimes does. Well after 8 years , as fate would have it , 10 days into my detox my doc drug tests me and I test negative for the opiates he is prescribing. I get a call from the nurse about 25 days into my detox saying they will no longer prescibe opiates to me. I expained why I tested negative to her and she didn't seem to want to hear it. I still get to see my doctor next week but did i do something wrong? I did what they should have been doing. 8 years on these meds I have to protect myself from addiction as well as my family but at the same time the thought of wht life will be for me within the next several weeks is scareing me. I will be a cripple with a month and a half with out these meds. I will get progressivly worse until I am only a shell of a man. I suffer pain during the detox but always much worse around day 30. I discovered I can go about 45 days until I simply need opiates to function, to get out of bed and that is even with epoderal blocks. Do you think my Pain Management doctor will reconsider once he understands what i have been doing for 5 years to protect against addiction? Please Help
 
yea, sometimes life is like that unfortuently. like what were the odds there? while i can totally understand where you are comming from,espescially the need to detox that liver,the next time you decide to go that route,all you need to do is simpkly TELL your PM,ya know? communication is just that crucial when in PM.

i am wondering just why, since you pain is like it is, that during this long time you have been in PM, they have not tried to just get you off ALL tylenol based meds and onto something long acting(and just MUCH safer) like the contins? believe me i watch my tylenol intake too since i have both a kidney and liver disease which my younest son(only 12 then) also recieved some mutated form of which caused him to actually go into total liver failure and needing a transplant at age 13.

i went into PM on oxycontin with four percs per day allowed for BT pain. the very first thing they did was take away my tylenol based percs and place me on the roxicodone that just does NOT contain ANY tylenol at all. they also were titrating my oxycontin up during the first like three months too? why keep any patient on tylenol based meds when they just KNOW, espescially with the latest dire warnings on tylenol, that not using it takes away alot of risks for the patient and simply gives a much more even blood plasma level too(using the long acting narcotics),which would keep your pain on a much more even keel type thing?

has this ever actually been discussed with you by your PM? doing this is just so much safer and simply offers much better overall coverage. when in PM for a chronic pain situation, it is just very different than any other pain treatment and should always be done with the patients best interest at heart. which would take any tylenol out of the picture and replace them with other non tylenol based meds that contain the exact same amount of oxy as the ty based meds, except of course with the actual oxycontin.

i am just kind of wondering why after all this time you are still even on any tylenol based meds in a chronic daily way. you could be doing this in a much much safer way, thats all i am really trying to say here in a very long winded way,lol. FB
 
wow, i really am suprised that this actually turned out for you the way it did. honestly, i did not think they would have done that considering. just the fact that you even 'could" go that long witout narcotics at all too i would think they would think that you really did not even 'need" them? ya know what i mean? you are dang lucky here and i DO hope you fully realize that. like i mentioned before,ANYTHING having to do with the Rxes that they are simply providing for you at all just demands full and total compliance and alot of plain old honesty about anything and everything having to do with them in any way shape or form. anything you do,you also have to think about how this could look or be interpretted on "their side" of things, ya know what i mean? i think your long history is what really saved your butt here.

just chalk all of this to very hard lessons learned and from here on out just ALWAYS keep them in the loop about everything. you are going to be very very heavily and closely monitored for a while til you have kind of rebuilt what you did have once with them, that very basic level of trust in their patient. that is just something earned along the way too. nothing but total and complete compliance with no taking tomorrows meds today type of thinking just always has to be in place too. since i do have the addiction background here, tho it was way back, i can NEVER ever for any reason allow myself just even one extra pill, even if my pain is just that bad. once you actually allow yourself, in your head to even justify that one single extra pill, you can very very easily do it again, and again. its the basic justification that leads one down that road of addiction, trust me on that one.

i do hope things continue to go well for you. just always be completely honest on everything, and NEVER use more than allowed on any day for any reason(this is where finding other ways to help manage your pain also plays a big part with flares) and it should be okay for you. good luck FB
 
Really, Fasting? I mean its done for a variety of reasons? I mean all that acetametaphin,,..I mean I have back pain everyday allday and when I do these detox fasts the pain is extreme after awhile. I go back to that , oneday ok the nect week a cripple so on and so forth. No way to live. We take them daily even if the pain isn't all that bad to prevetn those down times. During this fast I was disabled in bed for atleast half of those days , a day here a day there, 3 days there 3 days here.
 
I wonder if he thinks you are selling them, beings he didn't find any in your system.

He can always check with the pharmacy to see how often you refill your prescriptions.

Just my thoughts.

Jodie
:D
 
FB , there is a vast amount of suffereing during these fasts, so it isn't a matter of not needing the meds, its a matter of conviction to my health both mental and liver to clean out. I do not want a chronic pain issue to turn into a liver transplant. I am on almost 3000MG OF ACETIMETAPHIN a day. I don't mind the other stuff. but anything with that liver killer in it I am very careful. Look I too know what it is like to get to the , well I need an extr one today , or 2 or 3 but that was way back in the beginning. I learned if my daily dose isn't taking care of the pain completely I just deal with it cause if what I have already taken hasn't worked , 1 or 2 more certainly isnt going to help... lol. Ive settled in to a pretty good routine but apparently didnt tell my doctor. I just thank god I was given another chance....The reason it worked out is because God got me into it, so he got me out of it. The Detox figures in to what I believe as a christ centered christian to be my obligation to my family, myself , my god. If we are not careful we damage our bodies, we neglect or families and the drug becomes an Idol that even comes before god. I suffer for between 20 and 80 days a year depending on whats going on. that is a small price to pay for 285 days of nearly pain free living allowing me to work , walk, etc... thanks for all your insights
 
Good question. My doctor is always very rushed. I mean I really love the guy but I guess I'm always super paranoid to ask for anything, any adjustments. I hate the thought of tylenol. I have a nurse friend who says tylenol will be outlawed soon. Last time I went in and spilled the beans I asked to get off the norco. now I was on 8 norco and 4 oxy 10mg he switched me to 6 percs and 2 oxy. Now they say the percs are stronger and I am getting better relief from them and longer relief but over all I am in a little greater pain I think because of the 2 less oxy. Its only been almost 2 weeks so I am going to let it adjust in my system and see how it works. The percs seem to be a much better medication though. The Norcos for the past 2 years for some reason really made me nauseous, headaches, and I always felt like they weren't working. Not sure if that is possible since I took 8 a day , the percs are very un-noticeable in my system but are obviously more sustained relief overall. He offered Opana which i have had before and took them 6 times and thew up 6 times. Very expensive too. I will look into the Roxicontin
 
while i can understand where you are coming from here and the fears that just come along with having to be on any form of narcotic therepy, there were some errors here that simply could have been prevented if you had done just ONE thing. informed your PM BEFORE doing this. i am in pain management too and do have a past history of actual med abuse back in the 80s to boot. the one thing you just ALWAYS have to do when it comes to those meds even being rxed by your PM, is to just keep them as informed as possible about ANYTHING related to them. they simply really don't know why there were not meds in your system, only what you TOLD them, you know what i mean? for all they know, you either took them all way too soon or from the DEAs point of view(they just DO weigh very heavily in PM) you could have diverted them and sold them for money.

trust me, they ahve heard sooo many different stories over the years when it comes to meds that they just pretty much blkow things off if things don't appear 'right" in anyones case. did you actually sign a contract with these people when you started or thereafter? if you did,EVERYTNING that you have to follow is simply covered in that contract. if ANY rules are broken, it IS just grounds for dismissal. the bigger issue here is not having the meds to actually show that you had them, you simply "chose' not to take them, that was your 'proof' right there, ya know? if you had simply informed your PM as to what you did two times a year they would NOT have rxed them to you. according to THEM, you should simply have alot of extra meds. you just should have kept your "proof' just incase.

i really do think your only hope here since this has been a very long term type of relationship,would be to just be completley and totally honest about all this and tell them anything you can to try and justify your errors, to just to try and get that second chance with them. that of course is going to totally depend upon your actual level of pain, condition and whether or not you have had any reasons in the past where they could have doubted you or your actions when it came to the narcotics at all.

i do wish i had better info/news for you here, but just even being in a pain management program at all is a whole different world than simply seeing like your primary and having them just write a narcotic rx. totally different. the very strict guidance/direction and demanded compliance in every way shape and form are there for very specific reasons. to protect them and the patient. hopefully you can make them understand here. but if you can't, hopefully you can find another PM that will continue your therepy. you just really kind of did this to yourself when you failed to let your PM in on what you were simply doing with the meds that THEY rxed to you. hanging onto the meds that you just did NOT take would have helped tons in proving you simply did not actually take them, ya know? it is just one of those very hard lessons learned along the way. at least you know now that you just HAVE to keep your PM in the loop with anything related to the narcotics they rx you. sorry it turned out that way. i do wish you luck with this and please let me know how you are doing. FB
 
it wont ever actually be 'outlawed" the best they can do is regulate it much more closely. which given the fact that the "medical community" has pretty much ALWAYS known about the huge chances for severe impact upon the liver is well over due actually. they were talking about actually making the "higher" doses of tylenol available by Rx only, but since they were not going to actually be taking the lower dosages off ther shelves, it really seems pretty stupid ya know what i mean?

just one BIG thing here for you if this doc is not doing the more appropriate longer acting meds? make darn certain that this, the actual rxing doc is at the very least here checking your liver and kidney labs like every six month to a year?

there just IS a very very direct limit of tylenol intake per day that is set more towards how long it takes a particular chemical that aids in the metaboilization process to actally replenish itself. if you go over that set safe limit, espescially on a chronic basis, it will not replenish well and the patient just suffers liver cell die off from it. the approx amounts here for 'occasional usage(not your catagory at all) is around 4000mgs per day, but when you are using this on a chronic daily basis, that 'safe limit' actually goes down to only 3000mgs per day. but the big difference between the occasional and daily there that you need to be aware of. but there can also be people who are just much more sensitive to the impact of tylenol too whos safe limit numbers would actually be lower too(or even much higher). that you really wont or don't know yourself unless your liver labs start to change and you were staying within the safer parameters. i would seriously speak with your PM about this just becasue the timing really is right given what has recently come out with the 'newer warnings"? this has ALWAYS been a real risk, i just do not think the governing entitys appeared to fully realize just how much this WAS just affecting many many more people than once thought.

you just really do need to make certain that YOU, the patient is doing things in the safest ways possible for you. keeping any patient on tylenol based meds on a chronic basis is just NOT doing that for the patient. espescially when the PMs know there are just much safer meds availiable to use.

but DO make certain that those liver and the kidney labs are just being done here at all for you. labs will give you only part of what is the bigger picture tho in most cases, only becasue very real damage and or function loss HAS TO become affected in some way before ANY lab on any organ actually will change. so also obtaining at least an ultrasound would give you that other part of the picture. in order to best monitor my kidney/liver disease my primary draws labs twice a year then every june i get sent for my ultrasound just to see what actual changes have occured with the abdominal area, and more importantly for me, just how well all blood flow actually is within any given organ. i just have a form of cystic disease that can create cysts just about anywhere in my abdominal. it just creates LOTS of pressure within and from the outside of organs which can impair bloodflow. this is what they use the doppler for with the US. it can show blood flow velocity really well. you just need to know now and from here on out how your organs are doing. any impairment with your liver labs at all, any tylenol really should be removed from your meds. ust some things i have found along the way here.

i do wish you luck with the PM thing. hopefully if you approach this from strictly a safety way, he will at least try and get you onto some LA with the percs only for BT? not ideal, but soo much better and safer for you on a daily basis. its that simple really. FB
 
man , no they have never tested my liver nor kidneys, I scheduled some blood work myself with my family doctor but i have been too afraid to go get it done, man I'm just an idiot and here I call myself a christian, lying to my doctor, afraid to get the proper tests to ensure my health is ok, scared afraid,,,,man I have to get this together.
 
but ya..first time drug tested in 9 years and I test negative 10 days into the fast... the odds are incredible.. 1 in 9 based on years, 1 in 108 based on months . story of my life man , story of my life . so emabrrasing
 
Well made it to the doctor and brought my wife as she is "the dumper" when there are leftovers and during fast times. After about an hour of the worst verbal lashing of my life I have been given a second chance. He was extremely angry at us. I should not have lied when they gave me the test. I mean I can say I would never sell them all I want but in the end I look like a scum bag. As I left I could tell some of the nurses were not happy with me. I will never lie again about this. I think as a chronic pain sufferer we get o wrapped up in protecting ourselves its like us vs the world when these PM folks are there to help. My Doctor has made life possible for me the past 9 years. I have an uncle who put a bullet in his head because of under treatment so I get very protective of my treatment. I would never do that but man thepain gets sooo bad at times. So I get a second chance. I am on mega probation, back to refilling every 2 weeks and I imagine drug tests every time I go in to refill but I'm ok with that. I will tell them before hand when I fast in the future. Thanks for the good advice. Honesty is the best policy at all times. I mean what are the odds the first time i AM TESTED IN 9 YEARS I POP NEGATIVE . LOL. Unbelievable. but the story of my life. If it wasn't so serious I would laugh. The doc was not supportive of the fasting idea. I'm rethinkong everything right now. I am just glad I made it out alive. God got me into it and God got me out of it. He held up my 9years think file and said, if it wasnt for this you would be out the door. He also explained he has to go against the entire board to continue my treatment. I had no idea so much was involved with this stuff, I know now and learned my lesson as did my wife
 
yea that fear thing can certainly get us can't it? been there done that one too. you just REALLY have to get this done right now,and your PM is an idiot for going ahead and Rxing this crap and not making certain that the main organs impacted by it are just routinely being checked for good contiuous function.

just stop beating yourself up here for this(this was NOT YOUR true responsibility actually in the very first place, docs job). all we can do is learn from our mistakes and try to do a better job for oursevels in the future. you simply cannot change the past, but you CAN impact and better things in the here on out, ya know? i seriously would ask your actual PM/rxing doc just why "he" has never done this for you that he just has that responsibility to do if he is not doing the best thing here in getting you off all tylenol based meds and onto something he simply knows is proven to be much much safer?

but i would at the very least, either ask your PM about doing this and to keep on doing this from here on out or ask your primary. either way, you just NEED to be getting this stuff checked out considering this IS a daily chronic usage type of sitaution. quite honestly this should be pretty much a no brainer for HIM ya know?

things are more than likely okay for you, but you DO need that testing done if for no other reason to obtain that very first "baseline' testing that all other future tests can compare to. and of course to just know where your functions are at.

just try and never allow your fears to get in the way of what you just KNOW without a freaking doubt just IS in YOUR best interest. once you start allowing fear to play too big of a part in your choices, it can become a great big habit with other things too. sometimes it is hard, but you know you just have to ya know?

please keep me posted on all things thomaz, FB
 
I think he knows I'm not selling them but he said I could be. Thats the problem if i am not useing them I shouldnt refill them but because I didnt want anything to seem out of the ordinanry I would just take the hit and get them and dump them. I think it just seems unbleievable that someone would do that, considering an addicts mindset would be I could double up the next month..which would only increase tolerance levels and lead to deeper addiction. I am certainly not an addict. I think there is a fine line ,,,very fine line ,,between dependance and addiction. An addict will buy off the street, steal from others, rob drug stores and dependant will just deal with it but the suffering is the same during detox I would imagine.
 
You're extremely lucky. I'm glad you were given a second chance.
I can understand your concerns based on your past in the 80s but dumping them? I guess I have seen too many public service announcements about not dumping medication into the water system to even consider doing that, though I know some of it does clearly leave one's body during bodily functions.
Heck I have a whole bunch of outdated epi pens, since they only last a year and since the pharmacy doesn't want to take them.

Anyway to me the last thing I need to worry about is becoming addicted. I don't expect this to get better so I doubt the time will come when I am no longer taking these meds.

Well good luck and once again I'm glad it all worked out.
 
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