Canada = 51st state?

T

The 9/12 Project 9.12.01

New member
Not sure where you got this from, here's something I found:
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-17/1095138885150430.xml

Excerpts:



haven't looked at economic data, to be honest that's not really my strong suit

as for a study that combines income, life expectancy, education level:

http://www.norway.org/News/200404Norway_undp.htm



here are some more stats:

http://www.inamed.com/products/obesity/us/patient/health_updates.html



multiply by 10 for population, that's still 11-15 mill vs 2-8 mill

also:
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
http://www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/legal01.htm

yr 2000: murder/homicide:
US= 15517
Can=582

again multiply by 10 for population, that's still 15517vs 5820 : 2.7 x more likely to kill each other.

etc etc if you look at statistics, there are a lot that arent in your favour...
 
Well, I wouldn't be opposed to a more open border, pending: all welfare programs (including social security) were put in sunset, and the people coming here would come through customs, to check their background.
 
(www.statcan.ca/english/Pgdb/educ42.htm)
(http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/education/cps2003.html)


The US Census Bureau gives a table. There are 225,000,000 Americans over age 15...

United States
No high school degree-47,255,000
High school degree-67,688,000
Bachelor's degree-35,327,000
Master's degree-12,259,000
Doctorate-2,215,000

Now, divide each of these by 225,000,000 and then multiply by 100%...

United States
No high school degree-21.0%
High school degree-30.8%
Bachelor's degree-15.7%
Master's degree-5.5%
Doctorate-1%


Now, compare this to the data from www.statcan.ca.

Canada
No high school degree-7,935,075
High school degree-5,499,885
Bachelor's degree-2,411,475
Master's degree-642,055
Doctorate-128,625

There are 23,901,360 Canadians over age 15, so divide the following number by that, then multiply by 100%.

Canada
No high school degree-33.2%
High school degree-23.0%
Bachelor's degree-10.1%
Master's degree-2.7%
Doctorate-.5%


That is very simple math. Check it if you want to. In conclusion, the US performed significantly better than did Canada in all of the education categories.



(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ca.html)
(http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html)



GDP
Canada-$957 billion
United States-$11 trillion

GDP per capita
Canada-$29,700
United States-$37,800

GDP real growth rate
Canada-1.6%
United States-3.1%

Inflation rate
Canada-2.8%
United States-2.3%

Unemployment
Canada-7.8%
United States-6%

Also, look at the exchange rate.






NOW, ZACHVAC AND WAXY, TRY AND TELL ME THAT I WAS USING MYSTERIOUS FIGURES AND CALCULATIONS, AND THAT I AM DISTORTING THE INFORMATION!!!! I SHOWED YOU EXACTLY WHERE I GOT THE INFORMATION FROM AND EXACTLY HOW I DID MY CALCULATIONS!! I AM INTERESTED TO HEAR.
 
Excessive force? Using a gun to kill people when your life is not threatened might be considered excessive. I dont know what the law is like in the boarder states but normally I would think you be charged for such actions
 
Once again, I am amazed that a human being actually wrote this post.



Point out where I used slander, and where I called you a liar and deceitful. I didn't say you were deceitful, but presenting a fact like that and showing it like this "Canada average income-$73,200 and US average income-$67,000" is completely inaccurate and misleading, if not deceitful. You showed them side by side, and failed to at least say that Canada's average income is in Canadian dollars. How is that not misleading?



When did I call you a name? I don't think I ever did.



There is a .4% difference. You can't compare countries of unequivalent sizes if you don't use percentages. What if Canada and China had the same homicide rate? Well looking at the numbers, there would be about 20 million deaths by homicide a year in China, which is almost as much as Canada's population, even though the homicide rate is the exact same!!! If you tell someone that homicides in China nearly total the whole Canadian population each year, people get the impression that China is the worst place in the world. However, people forgot to mention that the chances of you getting killed in a homicide are the exact same, and they just look worse because China has over 1 billion people. The US has 15,000 homicides a year, and Canada has about 500. Obviously we are going to have more because we have 10 times the number of people you do. You are totally misleading people by showing the .4% thing above because it does not apply to the homicide rate.



I know. But you can't look at things in nominal terms like that. You have to look at it in relative terms. Take China for example. Their homicide rate is about the same as ours, but they will have about 5 times as many homicides committed because they have a larger population. Looking at things in terms of nominal value is not the right way to look at things.

Look at Brazil. In 1992, they had a population of 155 million and had a homicide rate of 37.5/100,000. This turns out to be 58,125 homicides each year. But look at China, who had nearly 62,810. Showing this stat to people will give them the false impression that crime is more rampant in China than Brazil. But when you look at the rates, Brazil has nearly 8 times the rate of homicide than does China, but by showing the numbers you mislead the person.
 
Hmmm...I don't think so, I'd rather be a dog than a pimple in the tail of a dog. If you are happy to be a pimple that is OK with me.. :xangel:
 
Considering the relative weakness of the US economy, and the relative strength of the Canadian economy, it seems more likely that the US counld become a new canadian provence. Makes more sense that way.
 
Those darn computer glitches, always striking at the worst times!

Anyhoo. :rolleyes:

Average household income -


Total Mean Median
Canada 4,354,495 3,962,440 $ 72,524 $ 68,750
NFLD 70,440 77,295 $ 59,466 $ 55,742
PEI 21,540 19,615 $ 58,073 $ 54,568
NS 124,725 121,890 $ 63,208 $ 60,785
NB 106,540 99,230 $ 60,136 $ 58,260
Quebec 987,300 933,990 $ 67,257 $ 64,791
Ontario 1,678,465 1,517,805 $ 79,697 $ 74,989
Manitoba 166,525 158,530 $ 65,197 $ 62,061
SK 150,075 147,400 $ 63,463 $ 58,549
Alberta 481,795 401,610 $ 73,897 $ 68,010
BC 552,815 472,480 $ 73,294 $ 70,343
Yukon 5,035 4,750 $ 79,708 $ 76,596
NWT 6,040 5,535 $ 91,833 $ 89,582
Nunavut 3,190 2,300 $ 64,683 $ 60,928

Name
Earnings Groups Average earnings (2000)

% change, average earnings (1990-2000)3


Total

Less than $20,0002

$20,000 - $59,999

$60,000 and over


Canada 16,415,785 6,659,39 7,728,47 2,027,915 $ 31,757
NFLD 251,545 133,790 100,270 17,485 $ 24,165
PEI 77,750 42,690 31,225 3,835 $ 22,303
Nova Scotia 468,825 222,970 209,635 36,220 $ 26,632
New Brunswick 388,855 193,325 168,495 27,025 $ 24,971
Quebec 3,815,265 1,583,180 1,860,375 371,715 $ 29,385
Ontario 6,319,530 2,334,525 3,016,460 968,545 $ 35,185
Manitoba 609,575 274,705 286,810 48,055 $ 27,178
Saskatchewan 534,350 263,560 228,345 42,455 $ 25,691
Alberta 1,768,435 723,715 802,980 241,745 $ 32,603
BC 2,128,550 865,860 1,001,470 261,220 $ 31,544 Yukon 18,780 7,255 8,770 2,755 $ 31,526
NWT 21,955 7,610 9,410 4,940 $ 36,645
Nunavut 12,355 6,215 4,225 1,915 $ 28,215

USA-

Families 73,057,960 72,802,717 73,313,203
 
When they disobey laws and posted trespassing signs, how are they not posing a threat to you? 200-300 illegals could easily take over a family of 8, no problem. So what do we do? Just tell the guy to suck it up and fix his fence everyday because he isn't allowed to do anything?

This is not just a case of minor trespassing, this is criminal trespassing. Fences surrounding his house are being torn down and torn apart, and people are basically "breaking into" his land. If this continues, he should have the right to keep people off his land. Do you think an electric fence is excessive? One that shocks the hell out of anyone who touches it?
 
So you admit you are a dog...mmm. at least I should give you high marks for honesty !

Whats this obsession you have about pimples ?
 
When a country is under attack from sucide bombs going off in its civilian centres, it has a right to protect itself. Self defense is the right of every nation. So unless the UN can give an guarrantee to Israel that the UN will protect Israel from sucide bombs .......it is a moot point.
 
In effect you do though now dont you?

You pay for your own insurance and your tax dollars are used to pay for people who cant afford medical insurance. Ie medicare. Unless I am mistake no one is turned away from the emergency room in the states?

I also understand that medical insurance in the states is a driving factor in the loss of manufacturing jobs as these positions generally provide medical insurance, the costs of which are rising at a rate (as I recall) around 8-12 %.
 
Are you serious? What do we tell the elderly when the hospital closes down the long term health care because they have too many illegals coming in? Tell the people with alzheimer's to drive 75 miles to the nearest hospital? You should be ashamed for saying that. You are basically telling the guy who runs the hospital that you could care less what happens to his patients!! These illegals are forcing him to pay $500k a year for their care, which he is never reimbursed for. Why should he even offer care to them in the first place? They are not US citizens. Hopefully he decides not to offer care to them because people like you will do nothing for him, while he suffers for helping them out.
 
You have made abolutely no point. Why are you showing me stuff from Ontario and Ottawa? I said the US and Canada, not states or provinces. Do you want me to give you some incomes from Massachusetts? You also failed to convert the Canadian mean income to US$, which was pretty stupid of you. Go to the www.statcan.ca website, and you will find the average income for economic families (2 or more) for 2003 was C$73,200, which in US$ is around $55,000. Compare this with the US$ mean income for the US, which according to you is $67,000. If the average Canadian salary was US$73,200, that would mean they were bringing in about C$100,000 a year, which is a bit too high.

Also, please take a look at my above post showing the GDP numbers, which are not bogus at all, nor have they been touched. Go to the CIA World Fact Book and it will show you the exact same GDP, GDP per capita, GDP real growth %, inflation rate, and unemployment %. Believe it or not, but it's true.
 
I was reading an article online from the LA Times that had some interesting facts about illegal Mexican immigrants. 40 % of Mexicans make $2 a day in Mexico, but can make 20 times that here in the US. Each year, Mexican immigrants send back half of their earnings to their families in Mexico, which causes our economy to take a huge hit. As these people remain in our country illegally, many health care facilities are responsible for offering them medical aid. In LA County, 32% of its medical patients are illegal Mexicans. Millions of US dollars are spent each year to take care of people who aren't even supposed to be here in the first place. According to the LA Times, an immigrant with less an a highschool education, costs the economy approx. $13,000 in his/her lifetime. There are 1.1 million illegal mexicans in LA County alone.
Also, 17 % of prisoners in the US are illegal aliens, even though they make up only 3 % of the total population. All of these extra criminals in the US strain the government budget even further, not to mention the added stress placed on the police force and the legal system.
And do people ever think about the fact that these people who come into the country are also having kiRAB here? The kiRAB are then automatically considered citizens, which in turn gives the parents the ability to receive the benefits that come with citizenship, which again strains the federal budget. All of this for people who shouldn't even be here?
 
However, they would not even allow him to apply.



And how is this justification for us being complete schmucks to people doing things legally?



I am not asking for punishment of anything. You are the one all wrapped up in punishing people. I am condemning YOU, for your one-sided vision. The vision that only allows you to care about injustice in our borders. It should disgust anyone who resembles a human that these factories do this.

And I do not know how many times I can repeat that Mexico and third world countries do not have the resources to fight our corporations. You see corporate america is also hugely powerful in government. Mexico takes a swipe at, Kodak or something, somebody in Washington will bring pressure to bear. You might as well tell a 90 pund woman to take care of fighting off her 250 lb rapist (without weapons).



OK.



It is if US companies are breaking laws (and they do). How about holding your fellow countryman accountable to a little humanity - law or no.



Actually there are masses of people who consider human being the most important thing on the planet - regardless of little lines on a map.



WHOOOSH

Where have I advocated that I support illegals coming here? I could have sworn that I have said several times that they should come here legally and that it is perfectly acceptable to expect that. I am simply stating that America should operate in decent way with those who are trying to come here legally, and we should also act within Mexican law when in Mexico's border and that it is equally reprehensible that we don't. It should make at least as outraged that your fellow countrymen behave that way there as it does when Mexicans break the laws here. I think it should make you MORE outraged. I think you should be down-right ashamed. I am.



Well - buy yourself a little me, myself and myland and you won't have to care about anyone else BUT you. You know maybe with the right equipment you could go live on Mars, nobody else to worry about there.



No we don't. And the fact that they do that isn't good. But we take advantage of and perpetuate their sagging economy for in the name of profits and that is not good either.

We aren't angels.

America and Americans sometimes does sucky things. Get that flag off your eyes.



Location may have played a part there. My friend lives in Toronto.



Listen, I cpuld have a huge argument about how it is better for the nation as a whole to keep it healthy, but in the end you will not see past your own wallet. But have no fear - I don't think your Canadian so you have nothing to worry about. None of the Canadians I know are complaining (and I know a ton) - so just let it be.



HEY - that makes two of us. Once my son is in college I plan to move to Toronto. Mostly because I feel very comfortable there. Great city.



Blah blah blah. Nothing puts me to sleep like money talk. The **** is necesary but so over-rated. Anyway - I am not saying they pay enough to warrant services - I simply that they do pay some taxes.



And your property is not more valuable than a person. Maybe collectively our two nations can find a constructive way to resolve this. But, nah, I suspect too many companies in and out of Mexico like the cheap wages to really do anything about it.

Oye, mi hijo es un Mexicano. Nombres feos como "mujado' no son necesario. No piensas - GRINGO? (Yo soy una tambien.)



I don't think much will really change. It is more profitable this way. However, I think it's sad that injustice only bothers you when it happens here or is carried out by a non-American.
 
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