Bell Hd network feeds (Black Bars)

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I'm a new subscriber to Bell HD after seeing and hearing from my friends about the picture quality of HD, I took the plunge and pulled the trigger on a new wide screen LCD TV and proceeded to subscribe to Bell's HD lineup.
Like all of us we only demo the best to our friends for my demo I was shown Equator, Discovery and some sports feed all Very nice! I was unaware of the various aspect ratios provided from the various broadcasters, I guess I took for granted that all HD was presented in 16:9:confused:
The Picture quality and sound on some of Bells lineup is really good (equator,treasure etc) but other feeds such as global are rather poor... my beef...
Why do the major broadcasters (NBCHD, FOXHD, ABCHD etc..) feed the HD signal in 4:3 ?? Maybe I'm wrong but most people who subscribe to HD have a wide screen set don't they??
IMO (and I'm talking about HD)there is no excuse for images bordered on the sides or worse all four sides, except the broadcast industry's laziness especially in HD, I understand aspect ratios but maybe I'm wrong but I thought Windscreen 16:9 HDTV's outsell 4:3 HD sets?? Is this 4:3 feed in HD going to continue with the major networks or is it going to change?
Whats up with this? Anyone else feel the same?

Tele
 
Most network programming is in HD (channels in the 800's, shows that the title shows "HD") and is 16:9
 
Please see the following post on What's on in HD. The 4:3 programming is simply upconverted SD on an HD channel, because the programme is not available in HD and because there's not enough HD to fill all timeslots:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76068

Please read the following post, useful for those new to the forum:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741
 
Yes I noticed that FAQ post, I guess what I'm getting at is how the programs are displayed in there aspect ratio...
an example while flicking through (bells hd lineup) this morning..

citytv 803 4:3 (Black bars on sides)
Globhe 801 4:3 (Black bars on top and bottom) WTF???
CTV 800 4:3
CBC 802 (widescreen)
APTnh 808 Full screen IMO one of the best on bells lineup (picture quality)
NBC HE 815 4:3


I guess being new and naive to the whole HD TV I thought bells HD would all be in wide screen format I'm just a little disappointed that there are so many different formats... I guess thats the way it is, I wonder if there are any plans as to a "standard" of how programming will be displayed?
For now I will juggle with the format button, maybe it's just me, I guess....

Tele
 
You need to look at the title of the show. If it has "HD" in the title, then in most cases it will be 16:9. This has nothing to do with Bell, this is what the networks provide. Morning news channels are typically not broadcast in HD 16:9 (but as mentioned will likely be SD upconverted 4:30.
 
Yes, I understand it's the feed the networks are providing to Bell,
I guess a question can be asked, How much programming would you think is provided in HD Full screen format for Bell HD subscribers vrs up converted as in Whole? and, Are you happy with this format in what you expected?

Tele
 
The Networks don't feed HD in 4:3 what's happening is the show is shot in SD and is 4:3. If the program is shot in SD it will be shown in 4:3 even if your tuned to a HD channel, unless the network up converts it to fill the whole screen.
 
Seeing I only watch Prime Time, virtually all shows are HD 16:9, so I guess overall I am happy (although I wish the simsub would stop).
 
Same here. 99% of the shows that I watch on the HD feeds are shot in HD, in 16:9, therefore I have no complaints.
However, I can't wait until HGTV, Food TV and other similar channels become HD.
 
From the second link in post 3 comes the following FAQ on "Black Bars".

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76089

The "bars all around" is explained there - its an SD programme that was shot in 16:9.



These sorts of programmes can be handled differently be each affiliate. Some affiliates stretch SD programming horizontally - most of us hate this since we want to see the programming OAR - in its original aspect ratio. Some affiliates "zoom" the widescreen programming to fill the screen. If this is done well (as it is on PBS), then the end result is satisfactory, whereas if it's done poorly, or the original quality was not good, then the end result is unsatisfactory. As you watch more TV you'll become accustomed to this variety.

As you can see from the second post of this FAQ, there are no "standards" and Aspect ratios vary from about 1.1:1 to 2.6:1.
 
I rented Iron Man on Bell HD PPV. I was disappointed to see it had been zoomed to a 16:9 format vs. 2:35 or whatever the original aspect ratio is ( it is not 16:9).

For the most part, Bell and formally Expressvu have been pretty good about displaying films in their OAR particularly as compared to some American services based on what I have read. All the PPV blockbusters I have previously rented were in their OAR.

I am renting the Hulk and recording it tonight, so we will see if the OAR has been preserved.

I have inquired with Bell on the OAR issue with Iron Man but I am getting the run around - I will not give up until I get an answer!

Although I have a Blu-ray player, I have often rented Bell PPV in HD as the quality is quite good ( not quite Blu-ray) and then I do not have to buy the film
 
I have noticed and I do care! Many movies that are originally shown in the theaters at 2.35:1, are cropped on the sides to fit 16x9 TV's when they are shown on the movie networks in both Canada and the USA. The only way around it is to rent the Blu-ray or SD DVD movie in all its 2.35:1 glory.
 
I guess the issue is why do they show some movies in the proper format and not others?
 
See the following threads on that topic: The studios produce a number of versions of their movies:

OAR, 16:9, DD5.1, etc.

Astral always asks for OAR and DD5.1, however, they don't always get that from the studios. Also, some people prefer to watch their movies without black bars (as has been noted my many, even in this forum - second link).

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=312474#post312474 Astral

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=92477 people not wanting OAR...

Note also that some 16:9 movies are not "cropped" on the sides, but rather they have been "expanded vertically" to take in more information from the original master (which is rarely 2.35:1, due to film/camera formats) So on those you're actually seeing more information than the 2.35:1 aspect. I believe T2 and others were "expanded" this way. I also believe that movies should be shown in the aspect the director intended, however, it's not always possible to see that version because not everyone involved in the chain is a videophile (or purist).

At least with 16:9, the problem isn't as bad as it was with 4:3 P&S where you'd lose almost 50% of the movie.
 
Thanks 57 - that link is the information I had been trying to get out of Bell for the last week - now I understand it is not likely Bell but the vagaries of the movie studios marketing for television broadcasting - just wish there was a way they could advise about the OARon the info before you order the movie - but then as you imply, most people could care less or have no clue.
 
Of the Bell HD PPV's I've purchased, most have been formatted 16x9. They do it because it means fewer complaints, like the one from the OP. It's actually one of the reasons I like watching them. If they had the HD audio I'd be all set!

-Mike
 
It's most likely too late now, but I can tell you after today that it's not. It would be nice if there was some indicator BEFORE you buy the movie that you're seeing a chopped up version. :rolleyes:
 
When the film is transferred to digital format, you're like getting some chopping anyway. Picture a cookie cutter that's formatted 1.8:1 or 2.4:1, that's placed over the film, whatever is on the edges is lost anyway. No need to stretch or otherwise distort the image.

-Mike
 
Most network feeds on HD stations are in 16x9 after 7PM (Prime Time). The rest of the time the broadcast is 4x3 with exceptions of the Big American shows like "The View" "Dr. Phil" "Oprah" etc.

CBC Newscasts are in Widescreen. CTV seems happy to broadsact anything they can buy in HD, but most of their Canadian Shows are still 4x3. Global is the same (except I don't seem to remember any shows on Global they didn't buy from the States except the News and that's definitely SD)

One thing to check! Your TV will have a remote button that allows you to set the picture aspect ratio. Make sure it it set to "just Scan" or to 16x9 as that's the format your Bell Box should be set to output in, as set from "TV set-up" in the Bell Box's set-up menu.

Then you have to remember that the "*" button on the remote changes the Bell Box's output with grey bars, blackbars, 16x9 and Zooming.

I have got some strange looking pictures by forgetting what buttons were pushed :p:
 
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