Can we hook up BEV receiver at the campsite/cottage?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Nimiq 1
  • Start date Start date
Sounds like FUD to me. Yeah, that's right, put the fear of the big EV god into the customer and everything will be alright. This sounds like harassment of honest people to me. Just presume that the customer is guilty and must prove their innocence or be punished. Big brother is watching YOU! :o

Never mind that EV's arrogance and incompetence has created up to a million signal pirates and millions more unsatisfied customers. :rolleyes:
 
You know so well what I mean...but you so much want to pick a fight that you will find every possible way to sound like you don't

Get to work...I booked a few moves last week that needs to get done!
 
I don't mean to personaly attack but merely to expose them to "the other side" and not jut the brainwashing that they receive from above.
Can you imangine the US police wasting the time to shut down all the Bell dishes in the USA and will the RCMP waste their time chasing all the users of Dish or Direct receivers traveling through Canada. Such threats are assinine and ridiculous. To state such shows the level of brainwashing and lack of ability to think for themselves.
I found the info you posted interesting but dosn't it apply to C band dishes transmitting to a ground station (permanent installation) in the USA?
Anyway - to think that Canadians can be kept behind the Rawhide curtain is ridiculous. Thank God that one Canadian provider is progressive and can think about helping their customers.
Now I will go and watch HBO on my C band dish even if it is "illegal". PS it only takes a phone call to a 1-800 number to get these subscriptions in Canada.
Lastly - do you know how to get 100 Canadians out of a swimming pool? Tell them to get out.
The only problem is apathy but who cares.
 
Thank you Hurricane...as you mention I never posted my personnal opinion about the policy, but just informed the poster of what the policy is.

For JCM, the RCMP just a big bust in Quebec a few weeks ago, they seized several dish and receivers of Dish and Direct TV as well as illegal BEV receivers... I guess they care more than you taught
 
Agent Express V, are you aware that Bell's signals are being pirated by a few people?

I know that there are laws against theft and this may even be addressed in the satellite agreement which you occasionally reference. I may be wrong but I think that even the CRTC has had some things to say about it. Realistically, Bell's measures to address this have failed miserably (see separate thread). It has even been posted on this board that Bell does nothing when they get a report of people allegedly stealing signals.
 
Also BEV as a cottage policy... You can not have receivers active at 2 different locations at the same time. If BEV finds you have receivers both at home and at a cottage they will deactivate the recivers at the other location immediatly.
 
Bell used to do this but "CAB" caused Bell to change. All because of the bloody cable companies.
 
hehe Good job Nimiq1, show them whos the big boss here!!
Hell, i take my IRD up to the cottage when ever i go, sometimes people r at home watch tv, sometimes there not. I couldnt care less. to be quite honest, i've even braught my IRD to a family members house for the weekend once.
If bell wants to disconnect me.. GO AHEAD! ill go over to *c or Rogers, and ill put an FTA system at the cottage instead if bev would prefer that.
 
Bell's response would be to start another account and pay in double. But in fact you could get another dish and plug that reciever at the camp. Bell will not sell you a second dish though. You can try and get one off ebay or someone you know. If not, the way to get one from bell is telling them yours is broken ( a tree fell on it always makes a good excuse ). In a special case like this they will sell you another for 99$ and you'll probably need an lnb also so tell them the tree broke that too and they go for about 90$ I believe. After that jsut hook everything up at the camp and never tell bell they are not in only one location.
 
That is the fault of the CRTC. EV doesn't need to buy into the ruling hook, line and sinker. I also wonder just how much EV fought the cable companies. I'll bet they were just thinking of the cost savings and extra revenue they would make due to a ruling in favour of the cable companies. At least *C recognizes the traditional rights of it's customers instead of forcing new policies down their throats.

What if EV went to the CRTC and asked that cable companies stop delivering VOD. The argument is that VOD cannot be delivered by satellite so it is an unfair advantage for the cable companies. It would be laughed out of the room. Delivering TV to customers that own multiple residences or even mobile residences is a technical advantage of satellite, just like VOD is a technical advantage of cable. Score one FUD win for cable and one KO for EV.

I really have to wonder how much EV really cares about the rights of its customers. They are continually trampling customer rights by performing simsubs against CRTC guidelines and destroying the signals they deliver through technical incompetence. When I first subscribed, EV delivered the best HD signal of any service. Now they are the worst by far due to their questionable practices that trample the rights of viewers to receive the signals they pay for intact. It's getting so I hate to tune into a network HD program because I don't know who is going to screw up the transmission first, the network or EV. These is not the actions of an "HD leader." They are more like a company out of control and out of touch with their customers. Here again, *C is taking the lead over EV.
 
Latest version of Service agreement as you could see on the ********/satelliteagreements

5-About Your Use of the DTH Equipement
a) The IRD Receier/Decoder Unit
Your right to receive and view the programming is grated only for IRDs situated in Canada that have been autorised by Bell Express Vu to receive such Programming. You IRD will not operate whithout a Smart Card. Express Vu reserves the right to verify that the service adress is in Canada and that all active IRD's on yu account are located at the adress listed on your account as your 'service adress'

b) Programming requires telephone connection
Express Vu requires each IRD to be directly and continuously connected to the same operating telephone line associated with you account. Any exeption to this requirement must be approved by Express Vu prior to the activation. Connection to a operating phone line is a condition of our grating you the right to receive and view the Programming and we may, in our sole discretion, disconnect some or all Programming if we determine that the IRD is not connected in that manner. We may verify the location of your IRD remotely or by contacting you directly. If Express Vu is nable to contact you to perform this verification, it may limit signl reception to a single receiver to a household containing multiple receivers.

f) Additionnl IRDs in the same household
It ia a condition that any additionnal IRD/Smart Card combinaison(S) rented or purchased and activated to receiver the same Programming as your intial IRD/Smart Card must be located at the sevice adress listed on your account and must continuously conneted to the same operating telephone line. We may, in our sole discretion, disconnect the Programming of any Suscriber that activated additionnal IRDs in breach of this section.

g) Vacation properties or Secondary Locations
No exceptions are mad to section 5a for customers using the Express Vu at a secondary location, vacation property, or mobile units, such as a camper, boat or recreationnal vehicule. Under no circumstances, including vacation properties re customers permitted to maintain multiple IRDs on one account that are active at different locations simultaneously. If an IRD is installed on a mobile unit such as a camper, boat or other recreationnal vehicule, you are permitted to have only one IRD active on that account

Guess it makes it pretty clear, doesn't it?
 
Now let's see...to stretch Shaw's cable from my house to the lake...around 95 miles as the crow flies...wonder if Hydro will bitch if I use their poles?

LOL
 
Agent, I'm not sure who you asked, but, the CRTC does not mandate how BEV chooses to enforce it's cottage policy or it's 'account stacking' policy.
The policy is BEV's. They made the rules for it, they enforce it. The CRTC requested a plan for how to limit account stacking but never actually approved or disapproved the one in use.
As for providing signal in the states, BEV doesn't support it as it is counter to FCC regulations.


Nem, who is tired of posting after 1 am.
 
From this site in the section 2002 and prior:
Bell says SC decision a victory for Canadian Broadcasting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

from Bell....

TORONTO, April 26 -- The unanimous Supreme Court decision that it is
illegal to sell equipment to receive satellite signals from outside Canada is
a tremendous victory for Canadian broadcasting, the President of Bell
ExpressVu, Canada's premiere satellite television broadcaster said today.
"Clearly, we are pleased by the verdict. It supports our efforts to
establish that the Radiocommunications Act accurately reflects the underlying
Canadian broadcasting policy," said David McLennan, President and Chief
Operating Officer of Bell ExpressVu.
Mr. McLennan said that the establishment and maintenance of a
broadcasting policy that ensures Canadians are able to tell their own stories
and to see programming created by and for Canadians is a key feature of our
national heritage and of government policy.
"The black and grey satellite markets were a direct threat to that
policy, Mr. McLennan said.
A survey for the Canadian Cable Television Association has estimated that
between 520,000 and 700,000 Canadians -- the equivalent of all cable
subscribers in the Atlantic provinces -- are using unauthorized satellite
systems, switching off the Canadian broadcasting system and plugging into the
U.S. network.
"That was undermining the Canadian broadcasting system, cheating rights
holders, creators, actors, technicians and others of their lawful
compensation," Mr. McLennan said.
"The unauthorized satellite systems also put at risk the Canadian
broadcasting industry's investments to build high-quality television services
for Canadians," Mr. McLennan said. "Illegal systems were resulting in a loss
of customers for legitimate, licensed Canadian services, resulting in a
revenue loss estimated at $325 million annually, across the industry.
"This decision will end that illegal activity and enable Bell ExpressVu
to continue to make investments for the future while providing Canadians with
tremendous choice in their television programming through the best digital TV
service in Canada," said Mr. McLennan.
Ian Gavaghan, Bell ExpressVu Vice President and General Counsel, said the
Court's decision means that the Radiocommunication Act does, indeed, outlaw
the unauthorized decoding of an encrypted signal.
"There can now be no doubt that satellite piracy is theft, which robs all
Canadians -- but particularly artists, producers, programmers and broadcasters
-- of hundreds of millions of dollars a year," Mr. Gavaghan said.
"As of today there is absolutely no question that stores selling grey and
black market equipment are breaking the law. We expect this illegal selling
will end today," Mr. Gavaghan said. "We expect the Federal government will
immediately respond to this ruling by aggressively enforcing the legislation
in order to ensure that this problem is addressed."
With over one million customers, Bell ExpressVu is Canada's leader in
digital home entertainment and broadcasts over 275 video digital channels to
an 18-inch dish -- the smallest in Canada. Bell ExpressVu was launched in
September 1997 and since then has become the digital TV leader in Canada. Bell
ExpressVu is a limited partnership, wholly owned by BCE Inc.


Media Backgrounder -
Bell ExpressVu's position on Satellite TV Piracy

Overview

Bell ExpressVu believes that allowing an unregulated, unlicensed parallel
broadcasting industry to exist in Canada will undermine the ability of the
regulated industry to compete, ultimately destroying the Canadian industry to
the detriment of all Canadians.
Unauthorized satellite systems result in significant losses to legitimate
licensed Canadian services. Further, they undermine the Canadian broadcasting
system by cheating rights holders, creators, actors, technicians and others of
their lawful compensation. Both the Canadian satellite and cable industries
continue to invest significant funds in their respective services --
investment that is at risk if unauthorized systems are allowed to continue to
operate.

1. The goal of Canadian broadcasting policy

The Broadcasting Act states that the Canadian broadcasting system serves
to safeguard, enrich and strengthen the cultural, political, social and
economic fabric of Canada. The aim of broadcasting policy is to foster a
broadcasting system that is distinctly Canadian by encouraging "the
development of Canadian expression, by providing a wide range of programming
that reflects Canadian attitudes, opinions, ideas, values and artistic
creativity, by displaying Canadian talent in entertainment programming and by
offering information and analysis concerning Canada and other countries from a
Canadian point of view."
Under the Broadcasting Act, the Canadian Radio-television and
Telecommunications Commission ("CRTC") is responsible for regulating the
broadcasting system with a view to implementing the policy set out in the Act,
The CRTC ensures that Canadians continue to enjoy access to creative and
original Canadian television and radio programs using various distribution
technologies. In short, Canadian community standards govern how Canada's
airwaves are used.
A Canadian distributor, like ExpressVu, receives a license from the CRTC
to legally broadcast in Canada. With it come many obligations to support
Canadian broadcasting policy. Pirate services are not licensed, nor do they
have any of the obligations concerning Canadian broadcasting policy.

2. Distribution Rights

Television distribution rights are typically sold by territory. Rights to
distribute programming are sold for Canada and the USA independently. Anyone
who has purchased distribution rights suffers financial loss if the same
program provided on a U.S. satellite signal is decoded in Canada, and nobody
is paid when the signals are stolen in the Black market.
Sections 9(1)(c), (d) and (e) of the Radiocommunication Act, as well as
the right of civil action under section 18 of that Act, are part of the legal
framework that fosters respect for distribution agreements to the benefit of
the Canadian entertainment and broadcasting industry. They also serve to meet
Canada's North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) obligations.

3. The Scope of the Problem

A survey for the Canadian Cable Television Association estimated that
between 520,000 and 700,000 Canadians are using unauthorized satellite
systems.
This is not an insignificant problem -- 520,000 to 700,000 unauthorized
systems is the equivalent of all cable subscribers in the Atlantic provinces
switching off the Canadian broadcasting system and plugging into the U.S.
network.
Star Choice and Bell ExpressVu have each committed $1 billion to building
a Canadian satellite service. The cable industry continues to invest in the
roll out of digital cable. DTV / HDTV is touted as a harbinger of the future.
All of these efforts are at risk if unauthorized satellite systems are allowed
to continue across Canada.
These unauthorized systems result in a loss of customers for legitimate,
licensed Canadian services, resulting in a revenue loss estimated at $325
million annually, and undermine the Canadian broadcasting system, cheating
rights holders, creators, actors, technicians and others of their lawful
compensation.
This activity creates a second unregulated broadcasting industry -- one
that does not have to adhere to the same requirements, regulations and
restrictions as Canadian distributors. Canada no longer has the ability to
control its airwaves, and determinations about what they watch aren't made by
Canadians.

4. The Problem is growing

A few Canadians have chosen to pay for their U.S. DTH services but even
in this circumstance, they are not paying the legal holder of the rights to
that programming in Canada. In order to receive the service, those few lie to
their U.S. supplier about where they live. U.S. DTH suppliers have indicated
time and again that they would not knowingly provide the service to Canadians.
However, the real problem is the widespread underground distribution network
in Canada of devices used to steal U.S. DTH programming, and the so-called
"grey" market is a Trojan horse for this vastly bigger, "black" market
problem.
The last year has been a "window of opportunity" for retailers of
equipment to receive unauthorized U.S. DBS Services. This window opened
because of some adverse legal interpretations of the Radiocommunications Act,
one of which ExpressVu is now appealing to the Supreme Court of Canada.
Retailers now openly sell pirate devices for stealing U.S. DBS
programming: they dishonestly market the DirecTV and EchoStar brands.
Customers are attracted by the "free" stolen programming.

5. What Needs to Be Done

Obviously, if there is a loophole in the law, it should be closed. And it
is important to act quickly. In addition, it is important that enforcement of
the law is made a priority of the Federal government.


Satellite Piracy Glossary of Terms:

Black Market - Refers to the theft of programming services from DTH
providers, by using various means intended to prevent or circumvent the proper
operation of the Conditional Access system. Black Market equipment providers
typically charge a single fee for the IRD and Smart Card, intimating that
programming received by the user is "free".

Conditional Access system - Is the name given to that portion of the IRD
which encrypts and decrypts the video and/or audio signal. It usually consists
of software resident in the IRD, working with a "Smart Card" inserted in the
IRD. There are three major CA systems in use in North America: the NewsData
Corp system used by DirecTV, the NagraVision system used by Echostar and Bell
ExpressVu, and the General Instrument system used by Star Choice and C-Band
service providers.

DBS (Direct Broadcast Satellite) - The transmission of audio and video
signals via satellite directly to the end user. Typically used to refer to
high-powered BSS satellites.

DTH (Direct to Home) - Official term used by the Canadian Radio
Telecommunication Commission referring to the satellite television
broadcasting industries. Bell ExpressVu is licensed as a DTH Broadcasting
Distribution Undertaking ("BDU")

Encryption, Decryption - Encryption is the process of electronically
altering a video and/or audio signal from its original condition to prevent
unauthorized reception. Decryption is the process of returning the video
and/or audio to its original condition. In the digital television transmission
industry, encryption differs from the older "scrambling" technology associated
with analogue transmissions which created a wavy, colour-shifted picture.

Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) - These are electronic attacks
generated by DTH service providers intended to prevent the operation of Black
Market "hacked" IRDs.

Encoding - is the process of transferring an analogue signal to a digital
format.

Grey Market - This term refers to the practice of using equipment to
receive DTH programming services from a service provider who is not licensed
to provide those services within a specific geographical area. Typically, this
is achieved by a practice of subterfuge whereby the prospective subscriber
adopts a false mailing address and other indicia to represent themselves as
resident in the territory for which the DTH service provider is legitimately
licensed to provide service.

Hacker - A person who has sufficient computer literacy to access and use
available software tools to set up an operating Black Market system. "Hacking"
refers to the act of modifying legitimate IRDs and/or Smart Cards in order to
prevent or circumvent the proper operation of the Conditional Access system in
the IRD. Some Hackers sell such Black Market systems to individuals.

IRD (integrated Receiver Decoder) - A device capable of receiving, tuning
and decoding DTH signals. Where an IRD includes a Conditional Access System,
it also decrypts signals.

Scrambling - Altering an analog video signal transmission so it can not
be received without an authorized operating decoder.

Satellite Antenna (Dish) - A parabolic antenna which collects and focuses
satellite signals. C Band antennas range in size from five to eight feet in
diameter, and Ku-Band antennas range from 18 inches to five feet.

Programming Undertaking - A company which produces, packages or
distributes video, audio and/or data services for distribution by DTH
satellite DTH Distribution undertakings.

Smart Card - Technology which allows for the upgrade of encryption
security through the use of a consumer installable card containing a new
computerized security code.

Video Compression - Technology which significantly reduced the bandwidth
and/or data required to transmit a video signal, making possible the carriage
of numerous NTSC quality signals on a single satellite transponder. MPEG-2
(Moving Picture Experts Group) is the standard utilized by DTH broadcasters.

Satellite Delivery Technologies:

C Band - (3.7 - 4.2 GHz) - Satellites operating in this band can be
spaced as close as two degrees apart in space, and normally carry 24
transponders operating at 10 to 17 watts each. Typical receive antennas are 6
to 7.5 feet in diameter. More than 250 channels of video and 75 audio services
are available today from more than 20 C-Band satellites over North America.
Virtually every cable programming service is delivered to cable television
head-ends via C-Band.

Ku-Band - The 117-12.7 GHz (Gigahertz) frequency band. This band has been
split into two segments. The first is the 117-12.2 GHz band known as FSS
(Fixed Satellite Service). The 12.2-12.7 GHz segment is known as BSS
(Broadcasting Satellite Service).

Fixed Satellite Service (FSS) Ku-Band (11.7-12.2 GHz) - Satellites
operating in this band can be spaced as closely as two degrees apart in space,
and carry from 12 to 24 transponders which operate at a wide range of powers.
Typically, FSS Ku operates at a medium power level which requires a larger
dish antenna to be effective. Typical receive antennas are two to three feet
in diameter. More than 20 FSS Ku-Band satellites are in operation over North
America today, including several "hybrid" satellites which carry both C-Band
and Ku-Band transponders. Star Choice uses FSS Ku-Band technology.

Broadcasting Satellite Service (BSS) Ku-Band (12.2-12.7 GHz) Satellites
operating in this band are spaced nine degrees apart in space, and normally
carry 16-32 transponders which operate at powers in excess of 100 watts. Due
to the orbital spacing these satellites can operate at high power settings and
therefore typical receive antennas are only 18 inches in diameter. A total of
32 DBS "channels" are available at each orbital position, which typically
allows for delivery of some 250 video signals where digital compression
technology is employed. Bell ExpressVu uses high power BSS Ku-Band.






-30-


For further information: Alessandra Saccal, Media Relations Consultant,
Bell ExpressVu, (416) 836-0205 Cell, (416) 446-2526, [email protected];
Ron MacInnes, Director, Communications, Bell ExpressVu, (416) 446-2621,
[email protected]
 
Call the SAT group at
1-866-395-9994, they will tell you about that cottage policy

Cable compagnies sued Express Vu ssaying we offered an unfair competition, since they coudn't offer the service at the cottage like Express Vu does. The debate went in the CRTC hand and they decided that 2 locations can not be active at the same time...look also at previous threads, you will find the article
 
Hahaha probably... but it's worth a try!

Cable companies are just complaining since they can't offer the same...so if they can't...no one else should have that ability right? WRONG
 
Has anyone had experience getting BEV to renting for a remote location with no land phone at all or renting in a location different than the billing location or using a cell phone as the contact phone? We want tv at our island cottage...

I doubt if I could get an installer in to do this either, and am well prepared to do it myself.

(not interested in a solution where you take your receiver and dish from your home to the cottage...)
 
Uh oh! Be careful since you will probably be reported to some sort of infractions department by the spies in here and you will lose access to all your channels. Big brother is watching you! The BEV receivers are very smart and know if you are being naughty or nice. :p
 
Don't worry about it ... just take your receiver and go camping. The RCMP are not worried about someone camping with a satellite dish, they are worried about grey market and hacked satellite systems. Everyone is making too big of a deal about this.
 
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